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Vindication in WOLK

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Vindication in WOLK

Postby dunnark » Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:39 am

So it was a pretty common consensus that Vindication wasn't worth it in BC, but the current look of it in WOLK costs less (2 pts), does more (20% stats reduction) and works on any damage not just melee.

So the question is, does its still not work on bosses? And for aoe tanking multiple mobs wouldn't this be a fairly high amount of damage reduction if it were on all the mobs you were tanking?
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Re: Vindication in WOLK

Postby Fridmarr » Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:44 am

dunnark wrote:So it was a pretty common consensus that Vindication wasn't worth it in BC, but the current look of it in WOLK costs less (2 pts), does more (20% stats reduction) and works on any damage not just melee.

So the question is, does its still not work on bosses? And for aoe tanking multiple mobs wouldn't this be a fairly high amount of damage reduction if it were on all the mobs you were tanking?


I'm sure it won't work on bosses and most raid trash, and AoE tanking is rarely life threatening anyhow. Besides, you'll go insane seeing a billion immune messages spamming your SCT on every pull. Given our talent tree bloat, I don't see a way to fit this into a spec without giving up something that is much better.
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Postby Sharlos » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:36 pm

Although for pvp, it will now proc on divine storm and consecrate, meaning you can keep it up on half an enemy arena team.
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Postby Baelor » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:39 pm

Sharlos wrote:Although for pvp, it will now proc on divine storm and consecrate, meaning you can keep it up on half an enemy arena team.

Mmmm, Divine Storm + Vindication vs. a melee cleave team...

Me: "Hai gusy, I vindakate all ov u! lololol"

Enemy healer: "What the hell? How did all your HP pools just drop by ~2500?"

Me: "/maniacal laughter"
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Postby Forlorn » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:16 pm

Well even better, Divine Storm and watch as Command procs off of it raping faces. Or blood every time for that extra bit of love. However when using blood be careful, i killed my self with it when i first got to northrend since I wasnt used to the Judgements hitting anywhere near as strong as they do now.

But yeah seals proc off of crusader strike and divine storm, i havent confirmed if they do off Hammer of the Righteous, ill be checking that tonight.
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Postby Argali » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:35 pm

It should still work for getting mana from proccing judgement of wisdom.
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Postby Eaglestrike » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:33 pm

Argali wrote:It should still work for getting mana from proccing judgement of wisdom.


This is currently the best reason to get this for PvE. And why I may spec into it for WotLK, but we'll see.
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Postby Candiru » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:50 pm

Argali wrote:It should still work for getting mana from proccing judgement of wisdom.


Vindication has never done this.

What gives ret paladins more mana from JoW than non-ret paladins is judging imp.JotC.

If you don't believe me test it yourself, I have.
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Postby Elsie » Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:42 pm

Mmmm, Divine Storm + Vindication vs. a melee cleave team...

Me: "Hai gusy, I vindakate all ov u! lololol"

Enemy healer: "What the hell? How did all your HP pools just drop by ~6000?"

Me: "/maniacal laughter"

Fixed, Art of War is nuts.
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ya

Postby Mavrix » Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:12 am

Candiru wrote:
Argali wrote:It should still work for getting mana from proccing judgement of wisdom.


Vindication has never done this.

What gives ret paladins more mana from JoW than non-ret paladins is judging imp.JotC.

If you don't believe me test it yourself, I have.


It was widely held urban legend at one point that vindication even though it didn't effect bosses would proc JoW. I'm pretty sure it's been unequivocally disproved, but it's still out there as an urban legend.
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Postby Argali » Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:16 am

It was in the guide at www.retpaladin.com
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Postby Baelor » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:05 am

Argali wrote:It was in the guide at www.retpaladin.com

It doesn't matter what it says on retpaladin.com's guide in either way. If you go to the theorycraft section on retpaladin.com's forum, there is a thread devoted to this topic. In addition, the EJ Ret DPS Theorycraft thread addressed this topic several times.

Let me lay it out once and for all.

Vindication procs, immune or not, do NOT cause extra JoW mana returns. The only reason to spec for Vindication is for the stat reduction, and it does not work on boss mobs.

These are the facts, and they are irrefutable.
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Postby Eaglestrike » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:32 am

Baelor wrote:
Argali wrote:It was in the guide at www.retpaladin.com

It doesn't matter what it says on retpaladin.com's guide in either way. If you go to the theorycraft section on retpaladin.com's forum, there is a thread devoted to this topic. In addition, the EJ Ret DPS Theorycraft thread addressed this topic several times.

Let me lay it out once and for all.

Vindication procs, immune or not, do NOT cause extra JoW mana returns. The only reason to spec for Vindication is for the stat reduction, and it does not work on boss mobs.

These are the facts, and they are irrefutable.


Unfortunate. Not only because I've now obviously been wasting a point in my ret tree, but that I'm not sure I can trust non-EJ sources anymore.
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Postby Lemondish » Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:57 am

Eaglestrike wrote:
Baelor wrote:
Argali wrote:It was in the guide at www.retpaladin.com

It doesn't matter what it says on retpaladin.com's guide in either way. If you go to the theorycraft section on retpaladin.com's forum, there is a thread devoted to this topic. In addition, the EJ Ret DPS Theorycraft thread addressed this topic several times.

Let me lay it out once and for all.

Vindication procs, immune or not, do NOT cause extra JoW mana returns. The only reason to spec for Vindication is for the stat reduction, and it does not work on boss mobs.

These are the facts, and they are irrefutable.


Unfortunate. Not only because I've now obviously been wasting a point in my ret tree, but that I'm not sure I can trust non-EJ sources anymore.


It would be a tremendous aid to early Retributions extra synergy with Prot (assuming the Protection tree is slimmed down a bit) if Vindication provided a secondary bonus. Perhaps a reduction on incoming damage by 2% by targets affected by Vindication. Would provide a PvE additional aspect to the talent while maintaining the PvP focus.

Given the new wording of the ability, has it been confirmed that Consecration, Divine Storm, and other such AoE abilities apply the debuff?
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Postby Baelor » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:05 am

Lemondish wrote:
Eaglestrike wrote:
Baelor wrote:
Argali wrote:It was in the guide at www.retpaladin.com

It doesn't matter what it says on retpaladin.com's guide in either way. If you go to the theorycraft section on retpaladin.com's forum, there is a thread devoted to this topic. In addition, the EJ Ret DPS Theorycraft thread addressed this topic several times.

Let me lay it out once and for all.

Vindication procs, immune or not, do NOT cause extra JoW mana returns. The only reason to spec for Vindication is for the stat reduction, and it does not work on boss mobs.

These are the facts, and they are irrefutable.


Unfortunate. Not only because I've now obviously been wasting a point in my ret tree, but that I'm not sure I can trust non-EJ sources anymore.


It would be a tremendous aid to early Retributions extra synergy with Prot (assuming the Protection tree is slimmed down a bit) if Vindication provided a secondary bonus. Perhaps a reduction on incoming damage by 2% by targets affected by Vindication. Would provide a PvE additional aspect to the talent while maintaining the PvP focus.

Given the new wording of the ability, has it been confirmed that Consecration, Divine Storm, and other such AoE abilities apply the debuff?

I am pretty sure that Divine Storm applies Vindication in beta, but I am pretty sure that Consecration does not. I'd ask for a paladin who is actually in beta to confirm...
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