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Postby Lore » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:23 am

Yadard wrote:Now if they'd just remove the bar on explosives and so forth in Arenas. It's not like the gems people have cut, armour & patches, enchants, etc stop working.


It's also not like your goggles stop working ;)
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Postby halabar » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:27 am

Praetorae wrote:Then again I could be wrong, and engineers @ lvl 80 could be begging their guilds to run SW trash over and over to get that rare pattern they need! (Seriously, this would be terrible).


Or they could make them world drops in WoLTK, but the hardened khorium requirement will be a problem.
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Postby halabar » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:32 am

Praetorae wrote:Those miners who had the ability to smelt Elementium had zero benefits leveling their mining skills past 300 when TBC hit. I suspect that this will be the case again once WotLK goes live.


Yes, but....

TBC had a massive gear reset. If this go around the gear reset isn't supposed to be as big, then the Sunwell patterns will be viable for much longer than the pre-BC ones, so they can't just go and make new trainable patterns that are better than the Sunwell ones.

Engineering just seems screwed until lvl 80 with Arthas. (LW for hunters us looking bad too, druds and shammies are getting all the patterns).
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Postby Arjuna » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:37 am

@halabar

I think that the t5 helm isnt bad at all, I would definately use it if I just could have the heart to drop mining and take up engineering...

look at BS or tailoring (LW have their imba drums), they both have some small things they could do and sell on ah, but the main thing is the gear they can craft for themselves, with BS only having either weps or a few pieces of armor...JC have a trinket and some BoP gems...alchemy have a trinket and some mad alchemist pots...we all have situational things to make it worth while to have the professions on our chars...

btw, I think "wish i had a http://www.wowhead.com/?item=23821" every time I ride past a gas cloud...those clouds are everywhere :P And last I checked...primals is a huuuge source of income...
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Postby PsiVen » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:42 am

halabar wrote:TBC had a massive gear reset. If this go around the gear reset isn't supposed to be as big, then the Sunwell patterns will be viable for much longer than the pre-BC ones, so they can't just go and make new trainable patterns that are better than the Sunwell ones.

If anything the gear reset in WotLK is even bigger.

Engineering just seems screwed until lvl 80 with Arthas.

Premature much?
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Postby halabar » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:50 am

Arjuna wrote:@halabar

I think that the t5 helm isnt bad at all, I would definately use it if I just could have the heart to drop mining and take up engineering...

look at BS or tailoring (LW have their imba drums), they both have some small things they could do and sell on ah, but the main thing is the gear they can craft for themselves, with BS only having either weps or a few pieces of armor...JC have a trinket and some BoP gems...alchemy have a trinket and some mad alchemist pots...we all have situational things to make it worth while to have the professions on our chars...

btw, I think "wish i had a http://www.wowhead.com/?item=23821" every time I ride past a gas cloud...those clouds are everywhere :P And last I checked...primals is a huuuge source of income...


Depends some on the server. Hopefully Engineers can gather parts of the new "Eternals". BS seems to be getting some love sofar with the Cobalt tanking set that is available early. LW drums are getting nerfed, for raids anyway... :-)
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Postby halabar » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:52 am

PsiVen wrote:If anything the gear reset in WotLK is even bigger.


That isn't what Blizz says... :roll:

I think it seems that way, because we are getting more raw stats on the gear, and less "equip" stats, since we will have more talents to convert the raw stats to the secondary stats.
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Postby jere » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:55 am

halabar wrote:
PsiVen wrote:If anything the gear reset in WotLK is even bigger.


That isn't what Blizz says... :roll:

I think it seems that way, because we are getting more raw stats on the gear, and less "equip" stats, since we will have more talents to convert the raw stats to the secondary stats.


I thought the quote was that they wouldn't have the stamina explosion be as large this time. What was the other quote referencing the whole gear reset?
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Postby honorshammer » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:27 am

halabar wrote:
Honorshammer wrote:I'm definately in a wait and see mode. I'm an Engineer/JC. I love Engineering. I can't imagine the Wrath goggles would require the Sunwell ones as a mat or the Sunwell ones will become trainable from a trainer.


I don't know about that.. I hope you're right. I really do. But I'm really afraid they've gone down the road of all-patterns-from-raids. Even if they are BOE, the costs will be way too high.

Saw the Ret goggle pattern last week. 24,000 G on Uldaman.


Let me clarify. Blizzard has been pretty consistant on their stance of not needing to do 'old' content to experience 'new' content.

Premise: Sunwell Goggles are a reagent for Wrath Goggles
Conclusion: Sunwell Goggles become trainable at trainer

Premise: Sunwell Goggles are NOT a reagent for Wrath Goggles
Conclusion: Sunwell Goggles NOT available at the trainer.

I'm still in wait and see. I dropped Engy in tBC to pick up JC for my guild becuse Engy was useless. Then I dropped mining to pickup Engy again. I am really worried about being gimped on stamina if I don't have Mining, but I'd rather not drop either Engy or JC. The other problem is that I can't 'power level' mining. You have to go arond and actually mine stuff. Might be great for cash but it will take much more time.

/waitandsee
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Postby dmok » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:44 am

Ok, I only got partway into this thread and saw alot of people complaining about the sunwell engineering goggles and how engineering will be useless (wtf??) once wotlk hits.

First, we have no idea what engineering will be getting at 80. I hope they do something similar to what they did in BC. The first set of engineering goggles had the same purpose as the spellfire and shadowweave set. Give people a solid, craftable item gap into the 2nd tier of raiding, to help push raiders a little farther a little faster. Are the sunwell-drop goggles a little stupid? maybe. But can you imagine some new-70 running around in quest greens/blues and a t6.5 helm?? Of course they are going to make you work for the upgrade.
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Postby argentevenin » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:47 am

hmm.....starting to think power leveling ench and alchamy might not have been the best idea......but meh it was something to do xD
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Postby AutomaticZen » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:53 am

halabar wrote:Some points that haven't been mentioned yet...

1) The LW armour upgrades are BOP, you won't be seeing them in the AH. (Which hoses LW for money-making)


Untrue. There are now three versions of each leg armor. The regular rare/epic versions for selling and giving to others, and the LWer only pattern.

Rare:
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/ima ... ork_25.jpg

Epic:
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/ima ... ork_26.jpg

LW-Only:
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/ima ... ork_27.jpg

Note the "Binds on Pickup" on the last one. They added the "Can Only Attached To Armor In Your Possession" to prevent LWers from giving the LW Only patterns out to anyone. But you can trade the rare and epic versions to others and they can apply the bonus themselves.

3) Even if they provide epic engineering patterns, they might be impossible to get. The current round is only available in Sunwell as you know, and only a handfull ever appear on the AH. This means that unless you are a top-tier raider, you are better off digging ore, as WoLTK blues will replace your current Engineering helm, and you won't have a upgrade path to a new engineering helm. Only seen ONE of the helms I could use in the AH, and it was listed for 18,000 bid.

So basically, if you aren't in Sunwell, engineering is useless once WoLTK hits.

I'm concerned here about what Blizz might do. If they follow what they did in Sunwell, they will KILL casual crafters, as all the better patterns and receipes only come from a raid instance, along with the mats as well. It seems as though they still want to force all toons into raids or arena. So they might hose the casuals in the process. (Anyone seen hardened khorium in the AH yet?.. 4 months or more after Sunwell was released?)


Hopefully they won't hose the crafters, but their preoccupation with "everyone must raid or do arena" has me worried.[/quote]

They'll do what they did for JCing. They'll drop the V2.0 Goggles on Wrath faction vendors. And v3.0-4.0 will drop out of raids.

Blizzard seems to have worked in a trickle-down method. They give high-end players gear and items, and a couple of patches later, they make it easier for everyone to get them.

Arjuna wrote:The patterns reflect their progress...if a player can buy it for 18k gold on AH...well they are pretty high up in no-life progression... :P
(no offense meant to anyone!)


It's all about professions. I'm sitting on 21k gold without doing the SSO dailies past what it took to get exalted. I've bought 3 epic mounts (mine, girlfriend, and my alts).

It only takes 15-20 minutes a night to buy gems off the AH, cut gems, and put gems on the AH. Hell, it's so easy, I've never even had mining because I hate farming. It's so time-consuming and boring.
Last edited by AutomaticZen on Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby balrogg » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:58 am

Arjuna wrote:The patterns reflect their progress...if a player can buy it for 18k gold on AH...well they are pretty high up in no-life progression... :P
(no offense meant to anyone!)


another poor person qqing :P engineers should at least be happy that they can buy some of the best helms in game for nothing more than gold. with everything the way it is, i really dont understand how people dont have gold, granted those patterns are bound to be inflated, and i dont know if i would personally spend the gold, but they are top tier helms, and at least they are available to a certain extent, as opposed to not at all.
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Postby Tycho » Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:00 pm

Maelstrom wrote:I hope I won't have to take up blacksmithing for some kind of major advantage - Blizzard did admit that they learnt that massive BoP profession advantages were retarded and won't be doing them again.


If crafters don't have a noteworthy advantage in some aspect of gameplay, then it's largely pointless. Just go dual gathering and rake in the cash (until everyone else dumps their crafting).
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Postby ulushnar » Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:10 pm

Honorshammer wrote:
halabar wrote:
Honorshammer wrote:I'm definately in a wait and see mode. I'm an Engineer/JC. I love Engineering. I can't imagine the Wrath goggles would require the Sunwell ones as a mat or the Sunwell ones will become trainable from a trainer.


I don't know about that.. I hope you're right. I really do. But I'm really afraid they've gone down the road of all-patterns-from-raids. Even if they are BOE, the costs will be way too high.

Saw the Ret goggle pattern last week. 24,000 G on Uldaman.


Let me clarify. Blizzard has been pretty consistant on their stance of not needing to do 'old' content to experience 'new' content.

Premise: Sunwell Goggles are a reagent for Wrath Goggles
Conclusion: Sunwell Goggles become trainable at trainer

Premise: Sunwell Goggles are NOT a reagent for Wrath Goggles
Conclusion: Sunwell Goggles NOT available at the trainer.

I'm still in wait and see. I dropped Engy in tBC to pick up JC for my guild becuse Engy was useless. Then I dropped mining to pickup Engy again. I am really worried about being gimped on stamina if I don't have Mining, but I'd rather not drop either Engy or JC. The other problem is that I can't 'power level' mining. You have to go arond and actually mine stuff. Might be great for cash but it will take much more time.

/waitandsee


Mining is +35 Stamina, which is the same as two green stamina gems, or just less than one Epic gem. It's not a massive advantage.
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