Holy Shield buffed to 10 charges?

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Postby Dorvan » Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:40 pm

The "If the ratings are 2:1" is the operative element. I don't think Blizzard want to keep relying on hacks like Sunwell Radiance to keep encounter designs reasonable from a tanking perspective, which makes me think we'll be seeing a fair bit lower avoidance numbers this time around.
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Postby moduspwnens » Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:42 pm

PsiVen wrote:You mean 70% for uncrushable? I don't see that being impossible. If the ratings equivalence is 2:1 at 80 I will still be able to reach it with my current gear, possibly without even regemming.

Impractical, maybe for Naxx. But even if they flatten all avoidance scaling we could gem for it in the gear they give us.


I don't think it's leaning that way. Dorvan mentioned this in another thread, but it seems that Sunwell Radiance shows that Blizzard was not happy with high-avoidance tanks, probably due to the difficulty it poses for balancing encounters. If they decided to take an encounter like Brutallus, take away the Sunwell Radiance (-25% avoidance) and just buff his hits by 25%, he'd be gibbing tanks like crazy.

I also present that Anticipation being changed to dodge lowers the contribution toward "uncrushability" of the talent, and they gave us Imp Thunderclap, which helps greatly in lower-avoidance situations (tough 10 mans).

Ultimately, though, we won't know until we see the gear and whether or not it has block rating or high defense on it. I wouldn't count on block rating (due to death knights). Basically, I expect our avoidance levels to be around the Sunwell levels.
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Postby Dorvan » Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:44 pm

moduspwnens wrote:I also present that Anticipation being changed to dodge lowers the contribution toward "uncrushability" of the talent, and they gave us Imp Thunderclap, which helps greatly in lower-avoidance situations (tough 10 mans)


This part isn't actually true. 20 def is only 20*.16 = 3.2% uncrushability.
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Postby Candiru » Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:48 pm

Yeah with 8s CD and 6 charges, I won't be wasting 2 points in imp.holy shield anymore.

Although, if the +15% damage and the 20% damage for holy shield from talents are multiplicative then that's a 1.38* multiplier which might be worth getting. But those extra charges will only really be usefull for 2-4 mobs, where the Hammer of the Righteous will be pro, so its probably going to be a talent of the past.
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Postby moduspwnens » Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:00 pm

Dorvan wrote:This part isn't actually true. 20 def is only 20*.16 = 3.2% uncrushability.


True. The rest of the argument still stands, though.
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Postby Dorvan » Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:10 pm

moduspwnens wrote:
Dorvan wrote:This part isn't actually true. 20 def is only 20*.16 = 3.2% uncrushability.


True. The rest of the argument still stands, though.


Agreed.
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Postby Griffonheart » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:42 pm

Imp Holy Shield adds damage, which transfer to extra threat. Even if we don't need the extra charges, would 20% increased damage be good?

Here is a spec WITHOUT it:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/cla ... 0000000000
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Postby moduspwnens » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:52 pm

Griffonheart wrote:Imp Holy Shield adds damage, which transfer to extra threat. Even if we don't need the extra charges, would 20% increased damage be good?


Well, I think it sits around 15% of our threat now. We're about to get two more high threat abilities that scale well, so that 15% is likely to get even less important. Is 20% increased damage good? Sure! But considering our current state of bloat, it's probably better to have those two point elsewhere.
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Postby Petrus » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:42 pm

Imp HS may or may not be worth taking depending on what you're doing. Since we all tend to do a lot of AoE anyway, I can't see having two more charges than we do now being that bad of a deal. Also, where might you put those extra two points?
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Postby guillex » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:59 pm

Petrus wrote:Imp HS may or may not be worth taking depending on what you're doing. Since we all tend to do a lot of AoE anyway, I can't see having two more charges than we do now being that bad of a deal. Also, where might you put those extra two points?


Guarded by the Light
Spell Warding (if one were so inclined)
2/3 Stoicism
Imp Judgment
2/3 HotC
Reckoning
PoJ

There are a bunch of places to put them.
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Postby Petrus » Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:03 pm

After toying around with some more new builds, going 1/2 Imp HS and leaving the same number of charges as we have now seems alright to me as well. All these changes so fast will leave a lot of theorycrafting for us to do at 80, that's for sure.
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Postby Makaijin » Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:03 pm

Never mind the Imp' HS, did anyone read the new description of Guarded by the Light? Before you needed to dodge or parry to get a mana reduction on next cast, but now the dodge/parry requirement is gone?
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Postby moduspwnens » Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:04 pm

Makaijin wrote:Never mind the Imp' HS, did anyone read the new description of Guarded by the Light? Before you needed to dodge or parry to get a mana reduction on next cast, but now the dodge/parry requirement is gone?


orly?
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Postby guillex » Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:05 pm

Makaijin wrote:Never mind the Imp' HS, did anyone read the new description of Guarded by the Light? Before you needed to dodge or parry to get a mana reduction on next cast, but now the dodge/parry requirement is gone?


They probably felt it was too OP ... And I'd have to agree. With the string of Dodge/Parry/Block/Miss that I regularly see, it'd almost be like having reckoning charges for your consecrate/hw/as.
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Postby moduspwnens » Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:10 pm

Guillex wrote:
Makaijin wrote:Never mind the Imp' HS, did anyone read the new description of Guarded by the Light? Before you needed to dodge or parry to get a mana reduction on next cast, but now the dodge/parry requirement is gone?


They probably felt it was too OP ... And I'd have to agree. With the string of Dodge/Parry/Block/Miss that I regularly see, it'd almost be like having reckoning charges for your consecrate/hw/as.


? He said the requirement is removed. Wouldn't that be a buff?
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