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Wrath of The Lich King Gear Needs

All things related to the expansion

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Postby Ciandin » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:13 pm

A bit late to the discussion, but regarding spells costing X% of our base mana, what's the purpose of having a huge mana pool if you are a healer or dps? Are paladins the only ones getting spells that cost X%? Or will the same go for mages, locks, and healers?
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Postby ulushnar » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:16 pm

Ciandin wrote:A bit late to the discussion, but regarding spells costing X% of our base mana, what's the purpose of having a huge mana pool if you are a healer or dps? Are paladins the only ones getting spells that cost X%? Or will the same go for mages, locks, and healers?


That's base mana, as in mana before +int bonuses, etc. And a lot of spells currently in the game have that kind of scale built in.
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Postby Mordinm » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:44 pm

Ciandin wrote:A bit late to the discussion, but regarding spells costing X% of our base mana, what's the purpose of having a huge mana pool if you are a healer or dps? Are paladins the only ones getting spells that cost X%? Or will the same go for mages, locks, and healers?


Generally it's something they do for spells that don't have ranks. Things like Cleanse, Druid Shifting, and Water Walking. It doesn't really make sense to have more then 1 rank of these things but they really should cost more at level 70 then level 30 or whenever you get them.

A few other spells like resurrections have them as well. It's basically a mechanism to prevent you from saving huge amounts of mana while getting the same basic effect.
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Postby AutomaticZen » Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:28 pm

It seems strength is our new threat stat. The new spell damage items don't seem to have any Stamina. Look at the difference between these two items:

Melee Shield
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/ima ... em_048.jpg

Caster Shield
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/ima ... em_014.jpg

Or these items:

Tanking Plate
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/ima ... em_039.jpg
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/ima ... em_040.jpg

Melee Plate
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/ima ... em_010.jpg
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/ima ... em_060.jpg
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/ima ... ldrons.jpg

Caster Plate
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/ima ... em_057.jpg
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/ima ... em_038.jpg

The caster plate is almost all missing stamina, while the Tanking plate has no Intellect or Spell Power. These are all Bind-On-Equip items.

It seems the caster items with Stamina/Intellect/Spell Power are all Dungeon Drops:
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/ima ... em_004.jpg
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/ima ... lights.jpg
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/ima ... flight.jpg
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/ima ... ndings.jpg

Again, no avoidance stats on any of these pieces. So what should we be wearing?
Last edited by AutomaticZen on Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Soltyr » Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:28 pm

Mordinm wrote:
Ciandin wrote:A bit late to the discussion, but regarding spells costing X% of our base mana, what's the purpose of having a huge mana pool if you are a healer or dps? Are paladins the only ones getting spells that cost X%? Or will the same go for mages, locks, and healers?


A few other spells like resurrections have them as well. It's basically a mechanism to prevent you from saving huge amounts of mana while getting the same basic effect.


Well I never understood ranked rez spell, completely useless.
They can use the same way by costing %base mana and %base HP/Mana granted.


Regarding the Stamina->Spellpower conversion.
Ofc it will give a base flat amount of spellpower to prot paladin.
Though I'm curious how this will scale at lev80, I mean passing from tierX to tierX+1.
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Postby Khayne » Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:21 am

AutomaticZen wrote:
Melee Shield
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/ima ... em_048.jpg

Tanking Plate
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/ima ... em_039.jpg
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/ima ... em_040.jpg


Again, no avoidance stats on any of these pieces. So what should we be wearing?


Defense, dodge and parry are no avoidance?
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Postby Dorvan » Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:04 am

To clarify, X% of base mana means your mana pool when naked, unbuffed and (I believe) untalented. So buffing your int doesn't increase the cost of those spells, and they cost a smaller % of your *buffed* mana pool than is listed.
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Postby AutomaticZen » Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:13 am

Also posted in general:

Some info on spells and scaling from Elitist Jerks:

Other notes on Judgments:
- Judgement of Light seems to be healing for quite a lot. I was being healed for ~300 health per proc in pure Ret gear.
- Seal of Righteousness scales with 10% of AP for 1H (not sure where the intercept is, though). I was wearing the SSO Aldor neck, and when it procced for 200 AP, SoR damage would jump by 20 points.
- Judgement of Righteousness appears to crit for 2x damage.
- AP does not appear to affect Seal of Vengeance. I could be wrong though, it's hard to match stacks with DoT ticks
- Seal of Vengeance is a 100% chance to apply on hit.
- Judgement of Vengeance may crit for 2x damage. I got a 2.2K JoV crit (5-stack) in pure Ret gear, and that seemed rather high to me.

- I can also confirm that your Block Value increases by 1 for every 2 Strength. (Intercept is not at zero, though. 646 Str = 313 Block Value)


New results: Seal of Righteousness, Seal of Light, Seal of Wisdom, Judgement of Light and Judgement of Wisdom all scale with both AP and SP. (I didn't test the other damage seals. This is all with zero talent points.)

Seal of Righteousness appears to follow the equation (WS = Weapon Speed):

Damage = 0.05 * WS * AP + 0.1 * WS * SP

This equation matched my experimental results perfectly. Maybe other people could take a look and see if it holds for them.

So SoR coefficients look like 5% per 1.0 weapon speed for Attack Power, and 10% per 1.0 weapon speed for Spell Power.


More preliminary results:

Seal of Light: Health gained = 28% * AP + 28% * SP

Seal of Wisdom: Mana gained = 14% * AP + 14% * SP

Judgement of Light proc: Health gained = 18% * AP + 18% * SP

Judgment of Wisdom proc: Mana gained = 9% * AP + 9% * SP


It's strictly AP scaling. There's no difference between the Cudgel and the Ancient Bone Mace for SoR.

The coefficients are the same for 1-H and 2-H weapons. There's no difference between the Ancient Bone Mace and Mag'hari Battleaxe (both 1.8 speed) for SoR.

Also, it looks like SoV scales with AP and SP as well. But it doesn't do that extra holy damage after you have a full 5-stack. Just the DoT damage.


I tested JoL and JoW in a group with a 72 paladin. I judged, he auto attacked. He gained my values of JoL and JoW. So it's the caster of the Judgement who determines how much health/mana is gained by the group.


I was wrong about Seal of Vengeance. The extra holy damage proc after a full stack still exists, just not if you have 0 spell power. Here are my initial Seal of Vengeance coefficients:

V = number of Vengeance debuffs on the target.

DoT: Damage = 7% * AP + 3.4% * V * SP => 7% * AP + 17% * SP @ full stack
Proc: Damage = 1.2% * WS * AP


Fixing Consecrate to scale with AP or Block would probably help us as well. (I'll post this in general as well)
Last edited by AutomaticZen on Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby AutomaticZen » Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:15 am

Khayne wrote:
AutomaticZen wrote:
Melee Shield
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/ima ... em_048.jpg

Tanking Plate
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/ima ... em_039.jpg
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/ima ... em_040.jpg


Again, no avoidance stats on any of these pieces. So what should we be wearing?


Defense, dodge and parry are no avoidance?


My bad. Added some stuff after I originally posted, and didn't change that.
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.

Postby Whait » Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:53 pm

so, what im guessing ( god im nervous ) is that stacking stam gives us spell dmg and str gives us BV, so... JCer pallys are going to have all the badass bop gems to stack str and stam? if they scale the sameish in wrath... does that sound a touch op to anyone else? i think im going to start lvling JCing.
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Re: .

Postby crabcrouton » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:29 pm

Whait wrote:so, what im guessing ( god im nervous ) is that stacking stam gives us spell dmg and str gives us BV, so... JCer pallys are going to have all the badass bop gems to stack str and stam? if they scale the sameish in wrath... does that sound a touch op to anyone else? i think im going to start lvling JCing.

There are no BoP Strength gems, just +AP. At least there wasn't one in BC.

If you're looking into bonus stats, enchanting (stats on rings) and Mining (+35 Stam bonus) might be more useful.
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Re: .

Postby aranil » Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:21 pm

crabcrouton wrote:
Whait wrote:so, what im guessing ( god im nervous ) is that stacking stam gives us spell dmg and str gives us BV, so... JCer pallys are going to have all the badass bop gems to stack str and stam? if they scale the sameish in wrath... does that sound a touch op to anyone else? i think im going to start lvling JCing.

There are no BoP Strength gems, just +AP. At least there wasn't one in BC.

If you're looking into bonus stats, enchanting (stats on rings) and Mining (+35 Stam bonus) might be more useful.


Mining and Jewel crafting FTW? I did recently drop herbing to mining for money making purposes (I hated picking flowers) although I kept Alchemy, and have been waffling on taking JC, waiting to see what else comes out of WOTLK
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Postby jere » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:57 am

AutomaticZen wrote:
Proc: Damage = 2% * SP



This was changed later in that thread. The tester found the actual equation to be:

1.2%*ws*AP

You might want to update so people don't take the 2% number and run with it on accident.
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