WotLK Datamined Paladin Talent Trees!

All things related to the expansion

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Postby Sharlos » Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:52 am

Noradin wrote:
Gamingdevil wrote:Does anyone else feel kings should be baseline? Noone really has points to get it and they removed all other blessings except might and wisdom, which doesn't give that much utility for some classes.


I feel it should be integrated into BoSanc.

I think sanctuary should be scrapped as a blessing altogether. Most tanks will be using kings in any significant content (plus it also buffs our threat too now). I'd rather see:
"Hand of Sanctuary Instant

Reduces the damage your target takes by 30% for 12 seconds. ect. ect."


Edit: sanctuary, not sacrifice
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well

Postby Mavrix » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:40 am

They do need to do something to make Sanctuary something we would actually use rather than just a weak thorns.
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Re: well

Postby moduspwnens » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:42 am

Mavrix wrote:They do need to do something to make Sanctuary something we would actually use rather than just a weak thorns.


I'm honestly a little surprised they didn't fix that, since they've been getting around to stuff that's needed fixing for a while. Maybe by the end of beta we'll be set.
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Postby PsiVen » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:50 am

To be fair, Sanctuary is better than Thorns. On M'uru we have a boomkin hand out Thorns with the Cenarion bonus and Sanctuary still matches its damage (and is double the threat for a paladin).

It's... a little sad to be making that comparison though. I'd be quite happy if all they did was change from "decreases damage taken by" to "increases block value by" the same amount. The benefits would certainly be more tangible then.
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Postby Obrimos » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:53 am

PsiVen wrote:To be fair, Sanctuary is better than Thorns. On M'uru we have a boomkin hand out Thorns with the Cenarion bonus and Sanctuary still matches its damage (and is double the threat for a paladin).

It's... a little sad to be making that comparison though. I'd be quite happy if all they did was change from "decreases damage taken by" to "increases block value by" the same amount. The benefits would certainly be more tangible then.


It'd be a threat talent then, which would be neat.

However, I like the idea of folding it into BoK. Just make "Blessing of Kings" add 10% to all stats and increase block value by X amount or something. Then it'd be the obvious "I'm a tank!" Blessing.
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Postby Mishdorf » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:54 am

fuzzygeek wrote:
Tycho wrote:
Mishdorf wrote:In all other situations if you are a prot pally without blessing of kings you are stupid and need to delete your character due to your inability to use your intelligence.


Uh, ok.

Call me crazy but I like to run with Sanctuary. You know, the threat blessing?

Kings isn't even needed outside of 25 mans, which is where another pally will have it anyways.


I tend to run BoW, usually.

And Mishdorf may not be at a progression level where he runs into the fact that paladin specs and gearing change drastically from tier to tier.

I mean, some paladins don't even have [/i]Avenger's Shield (gasp, horror, etc).


I am well aware that specs change as you progress through gear.

However, we are speculating about WotLK. For progression content paladins who tank should always be blessed with BoK. In WotLK Holy paladins will not pick this talent up in the majority of cases. Therefore paladins who tank will need to get it themselves or rely on a ret pally getting kings for them. When progressing a ret paladin may not be used in some fights due to various reasons (your guild's ret pally may not be available, the fight might not be suited to having a ret pally etc...) in which case if you did not have kings you will make your raid leader very cross.

Making the argument that overgeared content means you don't need kings is ludicrous. When you overgear content your spec doesn't have to be great either. That doesn't make a poor spec a good spec, it just means that your gear is covering for your poor spec. Similarly, tanks who run with other blessings currently over kings are using their gear to make up for the 10% stam nerf they are giving themselves.
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Postby Melathys » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:01 am

Hand of Sanctuary. I can see that happening.
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Postby Khayne » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:08 am

sapientialb wrote:Since the plan appears to be we're sharing gear with warriors/DKs we may be seeing some more AGI on our gear.

Right now I get an extra .38 avoidance from Kings, while not a huge number every bit extra counts. Even with Crushing blows disappearing I'd imagine we're going to be aiming for 100% avoidance+block to keep the hits off the table as well.


I´d say it depends on mitigation and scaling of certain abilities.

I can see our gear going for massive stamina & strenght (and thus also BV) thanks to the "all plate tanks share lewt".

So if those are the stats blizz will give us most easily i actually might not mind staying "crushable" in my normal set, just maxing out on stamina (it´s Health, mitigation from AD, and threat from Sd conversion all in one!), expertise (as far as it reduces both parry & dodge, we got 2 new melee moves we'll prob. be spamming) and Str/BV while getting pure avoidance as it comes.

This way i´d also gain benefit from redoubt when it procs since i´ll prob. need shield spec if rest of the expansion gear follows the gearing of the pieces i´ve seen thus far.

I wish some of our 5 point talents became 3 pointers or something attleast though, or drop that damn forced linking of shield spec to redoubt :( .

Someone loan blizzard wirecutters so they can cut some of the bloat off our tree allready!.
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Postby Dragonzbane » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:35 pm

Tycho wrote:Kings isn't even needed outside of 25 mans, which is where another pally will have it anyways.



What kind of raid make up are you guys running?

I can't see having more than 3 Paladins in a raid on a regular basis in WotLK.

1 of each:
Paladin
Shaman
Priest

2 or 3:
Druid
Warrior

1 or 2:
Hunter
Lock
Mage
Rogue
DK

Even with the improvements to Holy I can't see Paladins being the default "extra Healer" with Discipline looking like a solid raid build and Shaman having their usual benefits.


That said I have a hard time fitting BoK into any decent Holy or Ret build.

I definately will have a hard time figuring out what I want to take.
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Postby Mizak » Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:12 pm

sapientialb wrote:Since the plan appears to be we're sharing gear with warriors/DKs we may be seeing some more AGI on our gear.

Right now I get an extra .38 avoidance from Kings, while not a huge number every bit extra counts. Even with Crushing blows disappearing I'd imagine we're going to be aiming for 100% avoidance+block to keep the hits off the table as well.


Tank gear will presumably now have an even higher amount of "basic" stats on it, like STR, STA, and AGI.

As you already mentioned, AGI is going to help with avoidance. I am assuming we are going to all care a *lot* more about STR than we currently are, given that 1) STR bonus talent is now in the prot tree, 2) BV has been changed to 2:1 ratio now, and 3) the new tanking gear has a ton of STR on it.

So Kings is going to help with your mitigation as well, in the form of BV.

Also, more STA gear means more hps, which means that 10% hp boost from BoK is going to mean a lot more help with EH.

I honestly don't know how most of you can say "screw BoK" when it's a single point, and it's hard to think of a reason NOT to spend that point.

I mean, if that talent was just called "increase all your base stats by 10%".....wouldn't you take it?

Sure you will likely have someone else in a 25-man raid with the same talent, but when you are levelling in WotLK, I don't think it's likely you are going to run into another pally with it. I just don't see Holy pallies going down the prot tree for it anymore.

I think BoK is going to be a huge boon in WotLK, levelling and doing 5 and 10-man content. Sure, once you hit lvl 80, are doing 25-man content, AND are sure you have another pally in your guild that can handle BoK, then drop it.
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Postby Melathys » Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:22 pm

48 and 51 point holy paladins are likely all going to sub ret for the 5% crit to spells, which leaves us picking up imp devo and kings. Subbing ret also gives them more raid utility in the form of imp might and heart of the crusader (as they'll be judging for spell haste, may as well add 3% crit).

Honestly, I just don't see a compelling reason for holy paladins to go into the prot tree over the ret tree....now, if they tossed the prot healing bonus talent (30% increase on crit heals) down to where holy could get to it (like in the ret tree) then I think it would simply be matter of preference.

Honestly, I think blizz could make holy paladins happy by making that prot healing bonus(i forget the name offhand) down to where they could hit it while still 51 points into holy, and make beacon of light able to crit (maybe the first tick crits, and if so, the rest of the HoT is correspondingly increased) and with the 30% bonus to crit heals from prot, would make that 51 point talent as powerful as a 51 point talent should be.

idk, just rambling
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Postby Fridmarr » Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:40 pm

Blizzard put up the "official" beta talent trees, http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/cla ... ents2.html

I didn't notice anything different at first glance.
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Postby Lieris » Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:49 pm

It looks the same to me too.

I still can't get my head around GBtL. A chance within a chance to reduce mana cost of one spell in an already bloated talent tree? :? You must be joking. If you need more mana take off your pants or /sit, at least those don't cost talent points nor are they a proc.

Blizzard probably listened to the moaners who don't know what to do in content they over-gear. Good intentions but misguided sadly :)
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Postby ulushnar » Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:50 pm

Fridmarr wrote:Blizzard put up the "official" beta talent trees, http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/cla ... ents2.html

I didn't notice anything different at first glance.


Two extra charges in baseline Holy Shield...
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Postby Worldie » Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:07 pm

Those 2 extra charges might make Improved Holy Shield not good to take.
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