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Guild Discussion - should we wear 'MT' gear in Hyjal?

Winterchill, Anetheron, Kaz'rogal, Azgalor, Archimonde

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Would you recommend full MT gear for Hyjal trash tanking?

Poll ended at Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:42 pm

Yes
11
55%
No
9
45%
 
Total votes : 20

Guild Discussion - should we wear 'MT' gear in Hyjal?

Postby Dem » Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:42 pm

Hi, been learning from these forums for months now but decided to post a question.

Background. The GM of my guild has a pally tank and I respect his opinions. His view is that I should be wearing full tank (MT) gear for Hyjal. We are 4/9 in BT.
My view is that my gear needs to be tailored to the mobs and abilities of the healers.
I have several (well about 30 actually) outfits set up including an 'easy trash' set with relatively high spell damage and block and a 'hard trash' set with higher armour, stam and mitigation/avoidance.

I use Free Action potions on Abomination waves.

My question really is, is my GM correct?

I've been tanking Hyjal for several weeks now and I very rarely die. My view is that balancing my gear for more threat increases my mana regen and increases the speed of the fights. My GM feels this is too risky.

We recently ran with 2 pally tanks which is unusual for us. This reduced the mobs on me and thus mana regen. The 2nd tank died a number of times from initial aggro of several mobs. I had mana issues which were not a big problem, but due to having fewer mobs than usual on me. Additionally, because we had two tanks, the healers were split between us.

As a reference, In 'easy trash' gear I run about (unbuffed) 560 SD (+80ish from Alar trinket), 45% avoidance, 17.3k armour, uncrit, uncrush with about 500BV, 14.7k stam.
In 'hard trash' gear I run around 450 SD, 58% avoidance, 18k armour, uncrit, uncrush with about 330 BV, 16.2k stam.
My MT gear is T5/T6 with 430 SD, 61% avoidance, 18k armour, uncrit, uncrush with about 250BV, 16.4k stam.

One other question is, is wearing full 'MT' gear actually more risky as it's really designed for single targets?

I'd be really interested in any opinions about this and I intend to provide a link to this discussion to my GM once the poll results are in. In particular, I'd be interested in why you voted the way you did.

My gear link is here, although it may not always be my 'MT' gear.
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet ... n=Demarara
Last edited by Dem on Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Worldie » Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:07 pm

If the paladin happens to be tanking abominations, then armor/avoidance are very important, making the usual "main tank" setup significantly good for the job.
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Postby Dem » Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:34 pm

Actually, looking at the figures, I was struck by how close my 'hard trash' set (read Aboms) is to my MT gear.

In general though, don't you agree that core tanking stats need to be balanced with threat? I'm thinking particularly about the use of the 40/21 spec which is certainly about moving the balance towards threat at the expense of lower risk and 'safer' protection talents.
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Postby Tiandelin » Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:43 pm

Aside from casters, no trash in Hyjal is going to kill you unless an abomination knocks you down. High spelldamage is important since you have to hold aggro, but it's fine to sacrifice block value. Block value won't help you during knockdown anyway. Gear to keep abom knockdown from killing you.

Also, I don't think I'd really advise 40/21 for Hyjal. Ardent Defender shines almost blindingly here, and with decent spelldamage, you won't need sanctity to keep the mobs off your mages. You're not going to keep them off your warlocks regardless, so don't worry too much about them. :)
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Postby Dem » Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:03 pm

Ah, sorry didn't mean to mislead here. I use a fairly standard 50/11 spec. I tried 40/21 but it doesn't suit me at this level.

I use the 'hard trash' set for aboms which is high armour/stam + free action pots. As I said, not too far off MT gear.

For the easier stuff I use more block & SD.

My point about the 40/21 spec is a general one relating to my initial point - should we gear according to the situation or have a single set of gear for all occasions. God knows, it would make life a lot easier, although tanking the fire birds in ZA might get a bit more difficult.
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Postby Velgarn » Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:07 pm

I'd say try them both. I generally wear my full MT gear, however, my stats in MT gear are not all that far off from your 'hard trash set'. Mind you, my paladin never went to Gruul/Mag/SSC/TK, he has literally gone from Kara to Hyjal! (Badgezan ftw!) (Though if you armory me now, you will see I finally got rid of my righteous spaulders. Hurray for Gruul with another guild!)

Anyways, the only thing I change in my sets now is helm (tanktronic vs. t4) and cloak (holy dmg cloak from kara vs. pepe's) and sometimes trinkets (pocketwatch vs. darkmoon card).

I don't use free action potions (was never given any for the runs). I have learned to 'bubble pull' abom waves. I bubble and charge in, holy wrath, and wait for the other tanks to get to an abom, then cancel bubble. If all goes well, all the aboms are now on other tanks except maybe 1. All the other undead are on me. Leaving the mages/locks free to sheep/fear the casters without getting 2 shotted. Once they are on me, I generally pop my pocket watch to ensure I don't get too large a spike/stun at the start for the healers. I'm pretty sure you can dodge the stun, because I generally don't get stunned when the watch is popped. I also tend to target the abom and HoJ him while tanking. Especially after I do get a stun, to give the healers time to heal me up. If I do go OOM, there is time to drink mostly, and I carry a ton of pots on me anyways.

I would recommend the spell damage myself just to let the mages/locks AoE more. Locks don't pull off of me generally, as long as they waited long enough at the start... That could be because I holy wrath them all first though. :twisted:

It would really depend on how your guild handles the trash, and how many abominations you end up tanking. For that matter, how many mobs total you end up tanking. I'd probably max dodge if you plan to tank 2+ aboms and the other trash. After all, dead tanks don't hold aggro. As long as your other tanks are really good about getting the aboms off though, spelld dmg all the way for AoE goodness.
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Postby d503 » Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:11 pm

I make 2 changes.

Righteousness Badge Libram for spike threat on mobs that are getting close to being pulled off me, and Al'ar trinket...that's it.

Otherwise, my MT gear is the same.
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Postby Maelstrom » Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:53 pm

I use MT gear, because when you get knockdown (And you will), the only hing keeping you alive is stam and armour, which my MT gear has in spades.
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Postby Chevalier » Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:21 pm

I just downed mana pots everychance I got...therefore you can wear the gear that gives you the least chance of dying and enough mana to go on...also theres time to eat between pulls. Your increased spell damage isn't gonna make the pulls that much faster...your not dps and you should be able to hold aggro fine in your normal tanking gear.

P.S sbeacher sucks, how's that english for you?
Last edited by Chevalier on Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ulushnar » Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:06 am

My experience is that BV sets mean you go OOM on the trivial waves (ghouls, spiders) and are a nightmare to heal on the Abomination/Necro waves.

I basically take my MT set, add in the Consecrate Libram, Eye of Magtheridon and a few extra BV items (Auto blocker, 60 Badge boots, T5 helm). End result is I'm at 15k health, 50% avoidance, about 540 spelldamage and 500 BV. I tend to take a steady, but not overwhelming amount of damage on the simple waves and I'm pretty much in control of the tough waves.
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Postby Sanva » Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:38 pm

I use the gear I'm currently wearing, tho I do switch in the bt trash shield. I rarely have problems on the trash... usually deaths are due to the knock down while having 3 aboms on me+mini trash and lack of heals other then HoT's ticking at the beginning of a pull.

and I was like 6th last night on dps for the trash (I had 600 spell dmg with buffs and this gear >.>)
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Postby sbeacher » Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:28 am

Your increased spell damage isn't gonna make the pulls that much faster...your not dps and you should be able to hold aggro fine in your normal tanking gear.


a. it's you're not fucking your. For the first one.

b. I usually am 6th or 7th top dps _overall_ in there cause of my spell damage so yes it's gonna help.

If your healers suck or your other tanks suck and can't pull abominations off you then yeah wear your "mt" gear but otherwise you might as well do the most dps you can cause in hyjal prot pallies pretty much are dps.
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Postby ulushnar » Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:35 am

sbeacher wrote:
Your increased spell damage isn't gonna make the pulls that much faster...your not dps and you should be able to hold aggro fine in your normal tanking gear.


a. it's you're not fucking your. For the first one.


Don't flame people who are trying to help. This is not the official WoW forums.
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Postby sbeacher » Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:59 am

I will flame people all day long that can't l2speakenglish.
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Postby ulushnar » Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:04 am

sbeacher wrote:I will flame people all day long that can't l2speakenglish.


Because you, yourself used impeccable English in that sentence.

You understood them well enough to get what they were saying. Since the point of a language is to communicate ideas successfully, it looks like the poster did their job.

You sir, are a prick.
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