Level 80 Talent Build

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Postby Colette » Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:12 am

Does anyone know if the additional damage absorbed by shield specialization will count as "block rating" as far as Shield of Righteousness is concerned? If not, it might be worth dropping some points in shield spec, unless they scale block mitigation differently.
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Postby kanst » Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:14 am

moduspwnens wrote:
Torquemada wrote:Is it me, or did they get rid of Precision. War-tools still has it, Mmo-champion and Wowhead don't.


It'd make sense. Ret Paladins are usually swimming in +hit gear (probably moreso in WotLK), and we probably will be, too.


I think blizz is trying to move slightly away from hit rating being important. They also nuked the surv hunter hit rating talent. I bet they relax the hit cap in wrath
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Postby Sordin » Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:29 am

Dorvan wrote:
Sordin wrote:With Sta being converted 30% to +Spell Damage, not to mention all the other threat "Baking" going on, I just don't see us needing Seals of the Pure. I guess we'll ahve to wait and see what the theory crafting data says though.


Well, until we know what our single target tps is and what kind of DPS everyone else can put out, I see no reason to believe that extra threat is useless.


I've just got this feeling though that this talent come WotLK is going to be pretty similar to what it is now; Not really needed if you've got proper itemization. As you say though, we'll have to wait and see.
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Postby Dorvan » Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:39 am

Colette wrote:Does anyone know if the additional damage absorbed by shield specialization will count as "block rating" as far as Shield of Righteousness is concerned? If not, it might be worth dropping some points in shield spec, unless they scale block mitigation differently.


You're thinking of block value, not block rating....and yes, it shows up on your character sheet's block value right now, so I see no reason to believe it wouldn't count for SotR.
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Postby Dorvan » Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:40 am

Sordin wrote:I've just got this feeling though that this talent come WotLK is going to be pretty similar to what it is now; Not really needed if you've got proper itemization. As you say though, we'll have to wait and see.


That only reason it's not taken now is because we don't have 10 points to burn including 5 completely useless talent points. If it was tier 1 right now, you'd see a few Imp SoR build variants in TBC
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Postby Calder » Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:32 am

[quote]
Blessing of Salvation renamed Hand of Salvation, now reduces total threat on the target by 2% per second for 10 seconds while also reducing all damage and healing done by 10%. Only one Hand spell can be on the target per paladin at any one time. Now costs 6% of base mana.

Greater Blessing of Salvation removed.
[/quote]

All tanks are going to need a lot more threat now if that is true.
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Postby Worldie » Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:40 am

Calder wrote:All tanks are going to need a lot more threat now if that is true.


Maybe a lot less, the buff is more powerful than salvation was before.
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Postby Braundo » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:05 pm

Calder wrote:All tanks are going to need a lot more threat now if that is true.

Blizzard seems to be completely reworking the whole threat concept in Wrath -- tanks all seem to be getting ways to dish out WAY more threat, in order to lower the need for passive threat-reducing buffs. The end result will probably be the same it is today, just without the need for Salvation :)
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Postby Dorvan » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:16 pm

Worldie wrote:
Calder wrote:All tanks are going to need a lot more threat now if that is true.


Maybe a lot less, the buff is more powerful than salvation was before.


No it's not. A 10% reduction is total threat sounds amazing, but if you're generating 30% less threat all along, that's a 30% reduction in total threat. I expect an increase in passive threat reduction to make up the 30%....but if you're comparing simply BoSalv to HoSalv: HoSalv is much, much worse.
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Postby Hexzon » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:36 pm

Its Quite simple really holy paladins are going to have to add in general Hand of salv into hot bar and watch threat so they know who to cast it on, more mirco for holy pally.

Thus being said OMG at some of the talents, so hard to pick how i would spec, alot easier for holy thats for sure.

Also did RF get a nerf on threat or did i just read mmo champ wrong, base only 90% or was that a typo did they mean to type 140% as in the addition of the talent?
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Postby Worldie » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:55 pm

Dorvan wrote:
Worldie wrote:
Calder wrote:All tanks are going to need a lot more threat now if that is true.


Maybe a lot less, the buff is more powerful than salvation was before.


No it's not. A 10% reduction is total threat sounds amazing, but if you're generating 30% less threat all along, that's a 30% reduction in total threat. I expect an increase in passive threat reduction to make up the 30%....but if you're comparing simply BoSalv to HoSalv: HoSalv is much, much worse.

Hosalv is actually 20% reduction since it reduces damage done as well. And it's controllable.

Ofc it's less than 30%, but if we generate more threat, it's fine.
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Postby Dorvan » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:59 pm

Worldie wrote:Hosalv is actually 20% reduction since it reduces damage done as well. And it's controllable.

Ofc it's less than 30%, but if we generate more threat, it's fine.


No, it's not 20% reduction because that extra 10% is only for those 10 seconds as opposed to total, and claiming that a damage reduction is a threat reduction is pretty questionable in the first place, i.e.

"Hey guys, I found out a new threat reduction talent! Just stop DPS;ing for 3 seconds out of every 30!"

I agree that the threat will work itself out in the end, but the Salv change was a nerf, no 2 ways about it.
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Postby dmok » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:02 pm

Hexzon wrote:Also did RF get a nerf on threat or did i just read mmo champ wrong, base only 90% or was that a typo did they mean to type 140% as in the addition of the talent?

It says 90% increase, just like how our talent reads. 90% increase = 100% + 90% = 190% threat from holy damage attacks

They also nuked the surv hunter hit rating talent.

Where? I still see it showing up at 3% everywhere I look ...
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Postby PsiVen » Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:55 pm

Salv is 'baseline' now for DPS classes. I would wager they are retooling the values to give tanks more damage with less of a TPS edge, so the new 'passive salv' will be more like 15-20%.

Some interesting talent builds here:

0/47/24 Farming at 80 in strength/stamina stacking gear:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?pal ... 2150302000

0/61/10 Mitigation at the expense of threat (assuming STR has some defensive quality):
http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?pal ... 2155312221

5/54/12 Threat at the expense of mitigation:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?pal ... 2105311321

41/0/30 PvP Shockadin (for mah 2v2)
http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?pal ... 0000000000

7/0/64 (or similar 0/8/63) PvP Retadin (my ideal 2v2 partner ;) )
http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?pal ... 0000000000
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Postby Braundo » Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:18 pm

I would be very curious to see whether Judgements of the Just (46-point Prot talent) will work on boss mobs -- but I really doubt it. It would be nice, being so far down in the prot tree, but it would be crazily OP in the same vein as Vindication working on bosses.

EDIT: I'm kind of surprised that's not a Ret talent, actually, it seems like it'd be pretty nice for a PvP Retadin.
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