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Wrath Protection Paladins made out like THEIVES!

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Wrath Protection Paladins made out like THEIVES!

Postby Warcraft » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:17 am

So I read the Wrath Protection changes and decide to check in on this lovely forum, expecting to see fairly unanimous cheer. Instead, I find a bunch of "flavor of the month" Tankadins busy ogling Shockwave and talking about how good Protection Warriors will have it (once every 20 seconds) in Wrath... And how Retribution Paladins now restore health, restore mana, buff damage, and buff haste, like some sort of a Feral Boomkin Shadow Priest with totems.

To all you whiners, do me a favor, put your money where your mouth is, and re-roll. Some of us have worked hard to earn protection paladins a respectable name, and we don't need you cheapening our efforts. What do you even want? A zone-wide, spammable taunt that casts itself any time a nearby friendly unit is attacked? Learn to play your class.

Look for a second and what we're getting, and really think about it. What more could you ask for? I certainly couldn't ask for more, and I have been tanking longer than most of you. I could tell you about the first day that paladin tanking was made possible in TBC beta, when I specced it and people's first reaction was not even disbelief, but genuine surprise. "Wait, they let paladins tank now?"

Basically, I've tanked from beta Ramparts to Sunwell, and I'd like to think that I have pretty damn good experience with every incarnation of our abilities and gear options since our inception, and all the problems our kind has faced along the way. And with that in mind, I consider the changes published so far for Wrath GREAT. I am only talking about the fundamental changes, too, not even the trivial buffs like better talent placement, or Anticipation being converted to dodge.

- We are getting a trainable Shield Slam, and one that answers our block value to spell damage pleas at that.
- We are getting a Strike talent that, beyond already being awesome with it's 3-target sweep and 6 second cooldown, also improves our ability to DPS when not tanking!
- We are getting a fix for over-gearing encounters, just like warriors got.
- We are getting a stamina to spell damage co-efficient, further consolidating our stats.
- We are getting an Improved Thunder Clap built into our Judgements.
- We are getting the ability to give an entire raid a 30% shield wall every 4 minutes. All you need is a tank switch.
- We are being given a whole 2 second window to ensure 100% uptime on Holy Shield. This is a good mitigation buff, regardless of what happens to crushing blows in Wrath.

Basically, we are getting our stats consolidated, shield slam and a sweeping strike options added to our rotations, over-gearing fixed, DPS when not tanking improved, healing when not tanking also slightly improved, a target damage debuff, and a bunch of great smaller fixes.

Don't know about you, but to me this all means less stat juggling, more damage mitigation, more insanely front-loaded threat, more off-spec viability if needed in a pinch, more AE grinding ability, more buttons to press, and to sum it up MORE FUN. These are GOOD changes.
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Postby Scrawn » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:23 am

I couldn't have said it better myself

/cheer
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Postby Bobness » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:25 am

Thanks for joining the party...

It's not moaning per-se it's a discussion... no-one is that arsed about Warrior abilities tbh... Most people are wondering how they are going to fit in their shiny new Talents.

If you don't wish to discuss you've come to the wrong place.

Personally there are a number of times.. i've thought i've had a major concern over something only to see that concern disappear over a long thread where people argue two different POV.

Perhaps you need to take a leaf out of your own book ?
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Postby Candiru » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:27 am

There are so many shiny talents

and only 71 talent points.

:(
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Postby Lieris » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:29 am

Candiru wrote:There are so many shiny talents

and only 71 talent points.

:(


This is my biggest complaint. Having to waste 5 points in ret and Redoubt staying unchanged along with the bloated tree kinda sucks.
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Postby Joren » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:31 am

Generally it does sound like a good thing, but I think there are still things unseen and untold.

We're being made into more of a warrior, with warrior equ and most of the skills. But many of us are probably asking - where do we get the mana to do all that crap with warrior equipment?

I'm not siding in this matter anywhere, it's still in beta and pre-release notes, but keeping my unique way of tanking would be nice, I love my paladin.
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Postby Worldie » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:32 am

Well said, altho it could have gone into another post, but cba moving :)

Yes i like our new changes.
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Postby Mortehl » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:32 am

http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?pal ... 2155312321

I actually see the trees being fairly static.

2 big spec questions to be determined:

1) Is strength still useless as tits on a bull to us?
2) Is Imp Devo aura worth picking up?

Really I only see a grand total of 3 movable points in the main tankadin spec at this point and those are the points you'd put in imp devo as opposed to Seals of the Pure.

Edit: BTW I seriously got an e-woody when I saw this stuff.
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Postby Barathorn » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:34 am

It is early days, while from a quick glance I like some of the changes, some of the others I really am not keen on from a first glance. I will wait until all the information is available and I have tested how it works before making an informed judgement I think.

Anyway, welcome to the forums, interesting first post. Possibly not the best way to say hello with a few sweeping generalisations to rile people up but I guess I can see where you are coming from.

I am happy to wait and see what happens. As I said, welcome to the best Tankadin forums available on the interwobble!

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Postby Lieris » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:40 am

Mortehl wrote:2) Is Imp Devo aura worth picking up?


I think it is. At least it's only 3 points now too.
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Postby Flex » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:44 am

Mortehl wrote:http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?paladin=05005000000000000000000000003000000000000000000000000050050335200210252155312321

I actually see the trees being fairly static.

2 big spec questions to be determined:

1) Is strength still useless as tits on a bull to us?
2) Is Imp Devo aura worth picking up?

Really I only see a grand total of 3 movable points in the main tankadin spec at this point and those are the points you'd put in imp devo as opposed to Seals of the Pure.

Edit: BTW I seriously got an e-woody when I saw this stuff.


Question to you!

How needed is the parry with 5% dodge in Prot?

Sure its 5% avoidance, but is it a needed 5% avoidance?
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Postby Gideon » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:52 am

I also have an ewoody.

Now if they could just compress it all by 10-20 points I'm good to go.
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Postby Io.Draco » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:54 am

Lets not forget the fact that when WOTLK comes at the start we will basicly PWN the fuck out of every class , for example a bt geared pala will have around 1k spell dmg , muhahahha

But goota love how people QQ about these new changes , k our tree is bloated but gues what we are not only ones :P

From my experience as a tankadin : and I have been from karazhan into sunwell , I have main tanked bosses like ,nightbane , gruul , hydross , vashj , al'ar etc. when people would simply LAUGH out hard when you even brougt the discusion , its been a hell of a ride through TBC , one where you had need of nerves of steel to get through raids , but gues what we got through

I can consider TBC as the rise of the tankadins , it started from hell and now we are in heaven , blizzard has held their end of the bargain , and even though Kalgan is a cunt , you know what , as the lead CM he fixed us , he gave us what we needed , and we should be happy for that , FINALY the tanking classes are BALANCED
Last edited by Io.Draco on Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Joren » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:59 am

Flex wrote:
Question to you!

How needed is the parry with 5% dodge in Prot?

Sure its 5% avoidance, but is it a needed 5% avoidance?


I think it's a cheap 5 points spent there. Definitely worth it. Sure the parry was nicer, but it's still 5% avoidance.
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Postby Vanifae » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:00 am

I approve of this message.
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