Progression in Hyjal or...

Winterchill, Anetheron, Kaz'rogal, Azgalor, Archimonde

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Progression in Hyjal or...

Postby Lauranna-Skullcrusher » Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:47 am

Hello

My guild is currently 5/6 SSC, 2/4 TK (missing A'lar which should go down this week) and 1/5 in Hyjal. Now with the attunements gone I was wondering which boss should we go for next?

Lady Vashj
Kael
Anetheron and the other after
Naj'entus and the other after

We already started crafting lots of Shadow Resist gear and people are tired of doing SSC, so I was wondering which boss should come next. We never tried Vashj or Kael yet.

People are more motivated in doing Hyjal and BT, and with the badges gear, most people don't need the gear from the T5 instances. Are the strategies for Vashj and Kael really helpful for later bosses? Are they really that hard to learn? Are they even worth it?

Is it possible to sort by difficulty the bosses mentionned above?

Exemple: Rage < Anetheron < Naj'entus < Supremus < Vashj ...
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Postby Snake-Aes » Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:00 am

do A'lar, Then Vashj and Kael.

Those boss fights really ROCK, trust me, and some drops from them will last you until swp, if not further(see: Darkener's Grasp). A'lar is relatively easy compared to vashj and kael, and those two, when coordinated, are a beautiful thing to see and be part of. Rage Winterchill is easier than Gruul, and anetheron is a good healer check + positioning + focus check.
Naj and Supremus are easy too, as is Shade. Go for them if you want, but do not skip any t5 boss, it's worth it.
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Postby Tiandelin » Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:30 am

I'd say pretty much anything at T6 level is easier than Vashj or Kael at T5... except maybe for Archimonde. Vashj and Kael took my guild 6+ nights each. After that, we downed every boss in Hyjal or BT on the first night, aside from Archimonde, RoS, and Illidan. (RoS took 2, Illidan took 3. Let's not talk about Archie, though...)

However, I doubt that would have been the case if we had skipped Vashj and Kael. Both of those fights really build your coordination and help identify problems points in your raids. Once you've mastered those two fights, you're ready to take on anything at the T6 level.

And besides, it really is just such a rush that first time you get them down. Both are really epic battles, especially Kael.
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Postby Holyfuri » Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:56 am

Our guild faced this delimma earlier.

We were 5/6 SSC and 3/4 TK for quite a while, and on a 3 night raid schedule, so couldn't really attempt vashj and kael. After attunements were lifted we went into Hyjal and BT for a while to get the bug out of everyone's system and see the instance.

In two weeks we went 4/5 Hyjal and 1/9 BT. We then went back to kill vashj. We called it "vashj week". We focused on her every raid with one goal. First attempt on our third raid night we killed her. I must say Vashj is a VERY fun fight. Very engaging, very exciting, and there is alot going on. I would recommend everyone be a part of this fight at least once.

A few weeks later we were 4/5 Hyjal and 4/9 BT. We went back for "Kael week." Same goal, different boss. On our final attempt on our third raid night, we performed a flawless execution and killed kael with every raid member standing. I must say Kael is the most exciting and enjoyable fight I have seen yet. It is a fight no one should miss out on.

We had people that wanted to keep killing bosses and not "waste a whole week just to kill one boss" but once the fights are learned they can be repeated, the gear is invaluable from there, and the fights are just amazing. Really. You can kill a few bosses in T6 before you go back to make it easier, but please please, don't skip them. You will regret it.
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Re: Progression in Hyjal or...

Postby superworm » Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:46 am

Lauranna-Skullcrusher wrote:Hello

My guild is currently 5/6 SSC, 2/4 TK (missing A'lar which should go down this week) and 1/5 in Hyjal. Now with the attunements gone I was wondering which boss should we go for next?

Lady Vashj
Kael
Anetheron and the other after
Naj'entus and the other after

We already started crafting lots of Shadow Resist gear and people are tired of doing SSC, so I was wondering which boss should come next. We never tried Vashj or Kael yet.

People are more motivated in doing Hyjal and BT, and with the badges gear, most people don't need the gear from the T5 instances. Are the strategies for Vashj and Kael really helpful for later bosses? Are they really that hard to learn? Are they even worth it?

Is it possible to sort by difficulty the bosses mentionned above?

Exemple: Rage < Anetheron < Naj'entus < Supremus < Vashj ...


It really depends on your guildmates. Imo you should make a vote or something like that. Believe me, not all the people are supportive in trying T5 bosses, especially after several nights' wipe.
About difficulty level, I think Rage < Supremus < Akama< Hyjal 2,3,4 < Naj'entus < Kael < Vashj. Hyjal bosses are quite weak imo (except Archimonde), and the hard part are the trash waves.
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Re: Progression in Hyjal or...

Postby Snake-Aes » Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:50 am

superworm wrote:
Lauranna-Skullcrusher wrote:Hello

My guild is currently 5/6 SSC, 2/4 TK (missing A'lar which should go down this week) and 1/5 in Hyjal. Now with the attunements gone I was wondering which boss should we go for next?

Lady Vashj
Kael
Anetheron and the other after
Naj'entus and the other after

We already started crafting lots of Shadow Resist gear and people are tired of doing SSC, so I was wondering which boss should come next. We never tried Vashj or Kael yet.

People are more motivated in doing Hyjal and BT, and with the badges gear, most people don't need the gear from the T5 instances. Are the strategies for Vashj and Kael really helpful for later bosses? Are they really that hard to learn? Are they even worth it?

Is it possible to sort by difficulty the bosses mentionned above?

Exemple: Rage < Anetheron < Naj'entus < Supremus < Vashj ...


It really depends on your guildmates. Imo you should make a vote or something like that. Believe me, not all the people are supportive in trying T5 bosses, especially after several nights' wipe.
About difficulty level, I think Rage < Supremus < Akama< Hyjal 2,3,4 < Naj'entus < Kael < Vashj. Hyjal bosses are quite weak imo (except Archimonde), and the hard part are the trash waves.
It's kinda like they stored all the difficulty for archi. It'sokay, Rage, Anetheron, Kaz'rogal and Azgalor were mini almost no named bosses in the Battle, might as well make them just nuisances since the whole deal was beating Archi.
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Postby Exalt » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:26 am

Vashj and KT are guild killers.

They were guild killers before the attunements were lifted.

They can be guild killers now (there are a couple of guilds on my server that refused to go into Hyjal until they had downed them... they've since vanished)

Skip them and focus on Hyjal. The first four bosses in Hyjal are more than doable by a competent crew, provided the strats you use are solid.

Naj was a bitch for my guild and required a lot of group tuning before we got our first kill.

You *WILL* want to go back and get Vashj and Kael'Thas down eventually, but don't hamstring your progression just because the more hardcore had to spend MONTHS on those two bosses before being allowed into Hyjal.

The fights *are* a whole helluva lot of fun, but also a massive pain in the ass. So, by all means, do them. But focus on Hyjal.

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Postby jere » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:35 am

Well, honestly, while I agree that you don't want to stop progression over them, the majority of the guilds that skip them rarely go back for more than a couple attempts until they get bored trying to learn them again.

I was against skipping them altogether and wanted to spend some time on them while we tried MH and BT. The decision was made to skip them and come back later (which we never have really). I regret having skipped them and feel kinda cheated. I have even thought about taking a "guild vacation" in order to get some time in on them just to get them down and experience the fights in full, but I doubt I would ever leave my guild, even for that.

I think it is a mistake to skip them totally. They are good fights for teaching coordination, communication, and even just plain old skill and teamwork.
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Postby Moby » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:50 am

People are more motivated in doing Hyjal and BT


I think that's your answer.

Beside's the "do what's fun" answer, there's also this to consider: We're more or less in a race now... to experience level 70 content before the next expansion comes out. After that, just like when BC came out, most people will focus on leveling to 80 and experiencing all the new level 80 raids.

While I see the point of learning and beating vashj/Kael, one has to wonder if, given a finite number of raids, you might get more enjoyment out of the game cutting through "easier" bosses rather than getting stuck on a really tough one.

No doubt there are really good arguments either way.
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Postby Lauranna-Skullcrusher » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:51 am

Rage < Supremus < Akama< Hyjal 2,3,4 < Naj'entus < Kael < Vashj


Can you skip Naj and go to Supremus than Akama?
I always heard that Vashj was easier than Kael... I'm surprised that you put Kael before Vashj.
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Postby Worldie » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:00 am

With the nerfs, Kael is easier than Vashj.

You can't skip najentus, if you get into the tube he will spam 9k damage spines at you.
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Postby jere » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:29 am

Worldie wrote:With the nerfs, Kael is easier than Vashj.

You can't skip najentus, if you get into the tube he will spam 9k damage spines at you.


I am so gonna convince my raid to skip him next time then bubble hearth!
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Postby Holyfuri » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:36 pm

I did get lucky I guess, after I told my story. Most guilds that say they will go back to vashj and kael never do go back.

As far as the difficulty.. as someone who has recently gone back to successfully MT both fights, here's what I think.

They are about equal. Both tough fights but for different reasons.

Our guild knew what we had to do to defeat vashj halfway through the first night. We got her barely into phase three, even though it was hectic. The deal with vashj is the strategy is pretty simple, but there is alot of randomness that you cannot control, i.e. bat poop!

Kael literally took us nearly two full nights of attempts to work through the phases of kael. It is a much more complicated strategy and takes much more time to learn and fine tune. There is no randomness whatsoever in the kael fight. If someone dies it's because someone in the raid messed up.

Both fights have alot going on at the same time, and require alot of coordination and communication.

TL;DR - vashj is easy to learn, hard to execute. Kael is hard to learn, easy to execute.
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Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:58 pm

Kael and Illidan are performance fights.

Vashj and Archi are random karma checks.
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Postby Achtung » Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:26 pm

Our guild skipped Vashj and Kael.

We've just spent the last 3 weeks tackling Archimonde and successfully cleared MH. Went into BT on Sunday and got the first 3 down without any problems.

I think Vashj and Kael are good fights for a guild to learn and do, but I wouldn't stop all of your progression just to down a couple of bosses that realistically don't drop that much decent loot.

We'll be going back in to kill them soon, but I think our guild is much happier for having cleared MH instead of wiping on bosses that offer little benefit in terms of loot.
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