Remove Advertisements

Tankadin primer sent to brother planning to make a tankadin

How to get started.

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, lythac

Tankadin primer sent to brother planning to make a tankadin

Postby Wyleai » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:17 pm

I'm sure there are things I missed and things I didn't need to say, but I just sent him this massive text dump to get him started and to try and get him 'shocked out' of the DPS mindset he has from playing rogues and hunters. :wink:

The tone and style is also written mindful of the fact that I sent it to my brother, but I still thought it would be handy here for those not looking for reasons to take offense at things I say. :D

If you want to make your paladin into a tankadin there are some things you -MUST- do and must learn.

These are not optional if you want to have even basic competency at what is the toughest role to play in WoW.

Playing a tank is a completely different perspective on the game from playing DPS. You will need to revolutionize the way you think about WoW. Tanks have more in common with the concerns of healers than they do with DPS, even though tanks and healers themselves are also very different perspectives.

**
Join 'maintankadin' and read and understand all of the stickied threads in the basic training forum. There are some people on maintankadin who try to bait the others into forum conflicts, I won't name them, but the vast majority of people there are helpful people with a like interest and a true love of playing the hardest and least rewarding role in the game.

**
Adopt an 'alpha' persona when on your tank. Think of Jim or Nellie. You have to be large and in charge, the biggest badass in the room. Don't be a jerk about it, but don't backdown either. You need to learn to be both in charge and nice - concepts not compatible to many people; but if you can't combine them, you will not make a viable tank. Be sure to be lead in any group your tankadin is in. You don't need to bark orders, and in fact that tends to backfire. I lead by example and by quiet determination. I learn what comments from the DPSers and those trying to steal authority I should just not pay attention to, and those which if not dealt with will undermine the run. My response is rarely 'verbale/typed' - it is usually with an action of a demonstration done in pushing ahead or holding back as I see it needed despite the challenger. Remember what happened when your friend tried to tank - members of a PUG especially will exploit any weakness, real or imagined, to undermine their own tank. Get used to it, accept it, or stay out of tanking.

**
Learn to mark, always. You only need one mark though - skull, for your primary target. All other marking is optional, but that one mark just tells your group you are the one behind the steering wheel. Even if you don't actually need it, like on a pull size of 1, do it anyway just to remind everybody that you've got the remote and you're picking the channel. As for other marking, I find it is key to have a mark for PATs that are moving in and out of visibility, and a mark for mobs just outside of aggro range at tricky angles. The marks are often visible through some obstructions, and are visually jarring, serving as warnings if the wrong thing is getting too close.

**
Only you can pull mobs. If anyone else pulls, sit down, type /sleep, anything. Let them die. Let your own toon die. Let the PUG wipe. Even on the last boss of a 5 hour run. Wiping is preferable to losing control over this issue. There is no room for negotiation on this point. Why must you be such a hardass over it? Frontloading of threat - 50-90% of the threat you will deliver over the fight happens in the first few seconds, depending on your level and your mana-efficiency. If they take away your ability to pull, you lose a good portion of that, and must struggle to get it back while also burning the cooldown on your taunt at non-emergency moments. Your taunt is for moments when something bad happens, like you getting CC'd by a non-removable condition and the healer getting wailed on (when that happens, I target the healer and click my taunt the moment the CC comes off, then smack out as much threat as I can as fast as I can to get things back under control).

**
You MUST maintain these buffs on yourself all of the time:
Righteous Fury - with this off, you are not a tank, with it on, you meet the bare minimum. Never let it go down. Its the first brick in your foundation.
Retribution Aura - brick number two. And your PUGs will always try to get you to not use it, wanting Devotion Aura instead. Recognize that devotion aura gives a group armor buff. The other members of the group only need armor when you are failing as a tank. Why build a strategy based on your failure? Ret Aura boosts your threat - every mob that hits you takes holy damage. If you have Righteous Fury up and 3 talent points in Improved Righteous Fury, sometimes this is all the threat you need to tank.

**
Blessing management. You are buffing everyone in your group with something, and every paladin in your group better be blessing as well. No paladin ever has an excuse to let a blessing not be applied to everyone. NEVER let a paladin get away with putting blessing of might on you. Its useless for a tankadin. Its a retadin's buff. You want Wisdom, kings, or sanctuary on you, or at high level, the faction specific blessing (if alliance, the horde one, well, sucks).

**
You MUST, MUST, MUST, have these addons going:
Decursive - there is never an excuse for not having this. And the only excuse for not removing something this can remove is that someone else beats you to it. 90% of the things that can wipe your group are things this can remove, and you will soon find that every PUG has at least two people that could have removed them that failed to do so. Almost every wipe I have every suffered has been because I was CC'd by something somebody in the PUG could remove, my decursive told me that if I was not CC'd I could remove it, and I called out in chat for a removal, but the people who could remove it did not know how to cast their removal spell. Had they had this, it would have been a no brainer. I CANNOT STRESS HOW OFTEN THIS HAPPENS. It is just beyond belief...

Pallypower -OR- ZOMGbuffs or some new equiv. These manage your blessings and keep them from ever going down without you knowing it. Key to look for in your choice: 1. A visible timer of how long until blessings run out. 2. Ability to see everyone else in the group who has any of these addons and what blessing they are covering. 3. Ability for the group to leader to set what blessings each member must cast. 4. Ability to cast the blessings with no mental effort, and little to no keyboard/mouse effort. Which addon does that best is a matter for very frequent debate on paladin forums which largely comes down to personal preference. But Pallypower and ZOMGbuffs are presently compatible... so either is OK.

Tankadin: this is how you rate gear choices. You only need this active when making gear choices, and it doesn't really come into play until you start gearing up in the late 60s to be raid ready. But, throughout the leveling path it provides a steady resource to show you the effects of different gear choices on the numbers tankadins need to watch.

**
Optional Addons:
Clique - this will let you bind spells to mouse/key combos. Click those mouse/key combos on a party or target icon, a bar in Grid, or a bar in healbot, and they are cast on that target. I find this vital for the paladin's taunt. I've bound Righteous Defense to my middle mouse button, and 'blessing of protection' to alt-middle. That pair of bindings has helped me overcome many a bad DPSer's aggro-theft.

**
Ensure you are always at least getting 15fps. Falling below this is the death of your group. You need good framerate and low lag in order to tank effectively, Your response time more than anyone else sets the viability of the run. Second to you is your healer - so start making a friends list of fast healers.

**
UI design. You will need a tanking UI. Its goal is to focus all your 'clicks' into an easy to use location that you can quickly put into 'physical memory' and not have to think about. It should also come with a good set of macros and keybindings to move much of your activity away from 'moving parts.' The more you can do without needing to move around your screen or think about it the better. Look at screenshots of UIs of other tanks, especially tankadins, but also warrior and druid tanks. You will see certain trends. Copy them. I am attaching my own macros to this email. This macro set goes into the subfolder in your WTF folder that has your tankadin's name on it. Example:
World of Warcraft/WTF/Account/[your account name]/[server name]/[toon name]

**
Keep the ranged toons at range. You've got to lay down the law here. Before a pull nobody but you should be near you or the mob. After the pull ONLY melee DPS should be in melee range. I have a little test I like:
1. Zoom my camera all the way in to first person shooter mode.
2. Click my mouse wheel to zoom back 7 clicks.
3. If, out of combat, I can see the butt of any toon other than my own they are too close. In combat, the only people who belong in that camera view other than me are the melee DPS. If anyone is routinely in there that doesn't belong in there, look in LFG and your friends list and see if you can replace them. Remember ranged toons do 30% less threat, but the same DPS, if they can just remember to stay at range. Hunters, Mages, Priests, and Warlocks NEVER belong in melee - there is NEVER a grouped situation where they have a reason to willingly violate this rule. Other classes depend on role - healers need to stay out, melee DPS can come in.

**
Learn the classes. You're the tank and you're in charge and you need to know what every class and every role in the group is meant to be doing in there. You need to know this so you can coordinate the pacing, the pulls, threat management, and pretty much the entire run accordingly. And you have to do it all without letting on to the DPS that you're managing their gameplay... Which means you have to be subtle and polite about it.

**
Loot distribution. Since you're the lead, you set the loot rules. That's a tremendous opportunity to make some very poor decisions. You MUST be fair. This is another reason why you leaned the classes. You need to know which role in the group -should- be getting what loot so that when a dispute arises, and everybody points a finger at you because you were the lead (even if you had nothing to do with it), you can know how to pick what side of that dispute you're going to go with. Also... now is the time to start learning that loot doesn't just go to whoever can roll on it - it needs to go to whoever can benefit the group most by it. When distributing loot always assume the folks in this run are the people you're stuck gaming with for the rest of your time playing WoW - gear them all up the way you'd want them to be geared up. Don't play favorites. Decide now if you think people should be passing on gear they can't use. I suggest that even if you don't make them pass, you yourself pass and lead by example - even at the cost of losing money from doing so. Consider using Need before Greed to prevent ninja looting of items people cannot use, but remember that it doesn't prevent people from looting items they are not specc'd for... Learn how each loot system works, and be ready to pick one for your group and stand by it, but if you do - make sure you enforce it fairly.

**
Stop watching your DPS meter. DPS toons like to track who's dishing out the most damage. That means nothing for you. All you care about is who is taking the most damage, and receiving the most healing. For both of those, only you should have any value that is more than insignificant. Your job as a tank is not just to take the bulk of the damage, but also, and in fact more importantly, to minimize the damage everyone else is taking.

**
Power Word: Shield is not your friend. Paladins receive a major portion of their mana efficiency from being healed. They receive it from effective healing only - that portion that gives them back health. This begins the moment they level enough to have the passive spell Spiritual Attunement. It means two things:
1. A paladin has to take damage.
2. A paladin has to get healed.
Power Word shield is something priests like to do to give them more time to get off a heal. If you can live through that time, you don't want that spell on you. Remind your priests of this. Tell them to slap renew on you instead to cover the time gap, and then cast the big heal. Over time you will learn how to know when the exceptions to this apply - but also once you get high enough to have the talent Ardent Defender, those exceptions will narrow significantly.

***
Talent Spec: It matters, and it matters the moment you decide to start tanking. A level 10 paladin tank with 1 point in Redoubt is vastly more effective than a level 10 paladin trying to tank with any other spec. Even that first point matters, and it matters where it goes. Read on Maintankadin to know what makes for a viable spec. You can armory any of my three tankadins to see examples. In speccing, remember that your first goal is to get Avenger's Shield by level 50. After that you can consider whether or not to put some points into Retribution. By level 70 most tankadins have from 10 to 14 points in retribution. A small minority puts points into Holy, which I personally do not find an ideal choice.
Image
Image
User avatar
Wyleai
 
Posts: 322
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:05 pm
Location: San Francisco

Re: Tankadin primer sent to brother planning to make a tanka

Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:29 pm

I read through most of it, and skimmed the end. Nothing I can really disagree with other than some things that are just personal preference, but one thing caught my eye. 15 fps? Heh, I get 15 fps in the empty parts of Shatt. 20 is a good day. I don't know what kind of computer your brother runs though, so maybe 15 is a good number for him.
Image
The Seeker.
User avatar
Grehn|Skipjack
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 4529
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 8:53 am
Location: Malorne

Postby guillex » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:34 pm

People try to start conflicts on a public internet forum?

NEVAR!

Good read though. I like it, W.

errrr ... edit: There isn't a faction specific blessing. It's the seal.

We all have the same blessings.
Last edited by guillex on Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Póg mo thóin
Image
User avatar
guillex
Moderator
 
Posts: 7490
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:32 pm
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada

Postby Wyleai » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:36 pm

I'm shooting for 15fps in a run as a way of telling him, and I forgot to include this part, to cut down on his addons and graphics setting if his fps gets low enough to cut into his reaction time. I'll have to add that last part next time I talk to him. Its a balancing act though. I once cut my graphics down so much to boost FPS that I didn't see the spell effects of the boss I was tanking and so didn't see the masive AoE burst of damage he kept popping... That was the final boss in Slabs, who has the pulsing thing going on on the floor. I cut it out to save performance... but its pulse pattern warns you that you're about to get smacked. Three wipes later I corrected my situation. :wink:
Image
Image
User avatar
Wyleai
 
Posts: 322
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:05 pm
Location: San Francisco

Postby bub64882 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:59 am

Very nice! I have a friend stressing to me the beauty of decursive, but I didn't think it was necessary. I'm rethinking that now.
bub64882
 
Posts: 966
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:48 pm
Location: Gorgonnash

Postby Angella » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:19 pm

So I've been healing forever and never had decursive.

I have been using grid. Is it fair to say that grid is an acceptable substitute?
Last edited by Angella on Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Angella
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:26 pm

Postby guillex » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:30 pm

Angella wrote:So I've been healing forever and never had decursive.

I have been using grid. Is it fair to say that grid is an acceptable substitute?


Grid is a raid frame.

Decursive just puts faded boxes that light up when you can cleanse someone, and lets you just click once to cleanse.

Also works for any other class that you might have as an alt, that can dispell/cleanse/purify/w-e.

Grid + Clique can be set up to do the same thing.
Póg mo thóin
Image
User avatar
guillex
Moderator
 
Posts: 7490
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:32 pm
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada

Postby Amindra » Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:44 pm

(...) or at high level, the faction specific blessing (if alliance, the horde one, well, sucks).


Hmm :)
Amindra
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:04 pm
Location: Denmark

Postby guillex » Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:53 pm

Amindra wrote:
(...) or at high level, the faction specific blessing (if alliance, the horde one, well, sucks).


Hmm :)


ohhhhhh???

[quote="Guillex"]
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject:
People try to start conflicts on a public internet forum?

NEVAR!

Good read though. I like it, W.

errrr ... edit: There isn't a faction specific blessing. It's the seal.

We all have the same blessings.
Póg mo thóin
Image
User avatar
guillex
Moderator
 
Posts: 7490
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:32 pm
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada

Postby Levantine » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:21 am

Guillex wrote:
Angella wrote:So I've been healing forever and never had decursive.

I have been using grid. Is it fair to say that grid is an acceptable substitute?


Grid is a raid frame.

Decursive just puts faded boxes that light up when you can cleanse someone, and lets you just click once to cleanse.

Also works for any other class that you might have as an alt, that can dispell/cleanse/purify/w-e.

Grid + Clique can be set up to do the same thing.


I don't like Decursive, but mostly because I can't be fucked learning it and trying to fit it into my UI when I already know that Clique does the same thing. =D That and it seems superfluous since I would still use Clique for other spells anyway.
User avatar
Levantine
 
Posts: 10817
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:48 pm
Location: NQ, Aus

Postby Manius » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:30 am

I found decursive to be much more essential Pre-BC when you'd click the Decursive icon and it'd heal the next affected party/raid member. I remember Lucifron fights on my mage being 90% decursive spamclicking. Nowadays I just have remove lesser curse macro with mouseover and the groups dragged out.

Should probably check it out though.

Also, is there any addon setup that could be considered "essential lite"? I generally don't like having more than 3-4 addons running, and am wary of any addon that modifies the look of the general interface.
Manius
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:15 am
Location: Thule

Postby Joren » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:36 am

Nice piece, I'll definitely think about decursive, though I usually just clique my way out of those situations.

If your brother played hunter, he should have some basic idea of aggro - thus he should be very fine with that text. If every tank I've ever been with in any level instance knew that, I'd have to tell them alot less. 8) Everytime. Everywhere. Gahh...

And thanks for the /sleep tip, I just haven't been hardass enough I realize.
Image
User avatar
Joren
 
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:36 am
Location: Oulu, Finland

Postby amh » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:55 am

Manius wrote:Also, is there any addon setup that could be considered "essential lite"?


Omen , Grid + Clique.


EDIT: I need to stop browsing old threads :(
I used to play a paladin.
User avatar
amh
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 3012
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 6:25 am
Location: Oh hi

Postby Wyleai » Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:11 pm

That decursive lights up is why I advocate it. There's nothing to learn. You just put the addon into the Addons folder, log in, and wait for a red box to light up on your screen. When it does, you click it.

It's a wack-a-mole debuff removal.

I find that even when tanking, I'm responsible for 90%+ of the debuff removal because the rest of the group, PUG or guild or friends, can't find their spells...

And nearly evertime a CC hits me and stuns, petrifies, or polymorphs me; we wipe... Even if removal would be an instant cast click and the entire rest of the group has a spell to remove it...


On the note on blessings and seals and me getting them mixed up... Oh well. point still gets across. :) Show you how much I use that blood elf seal. :)
Image
Image
User avatar
Wyleai
 
Posts: 322
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:05 pm
Location: San Francisco


Return to Basic Training & Talents

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron

Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest