Help me die less on hyjall trash

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Help me die less on hyjall trash

Postby shifttusk » Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:38 am

So i've swapped from bringing my hunter to brining my pally for hyjall and I'm the aoe tank. From what I've read here my gear is up to snuff

(easylay executus us) but I may be in ret gear.

I go into hyjall with a armor defense ( higher miss for knockdowns) moderate BV set:

Unbuff HP: 15.5k
Unbuff armor: 18k
Miss: 12.9%
Dodge: 22%
Parry: 17.5%
Block: 23%
BV is 479

My problem is after using a free action pot i get abom stunned and ripped. I've tanked this as 0/40/21 and 0/49/12 and regardless I get stomped frequently with or without AD. Should I stop using FAPs and swap to iron shields to reduce all dmg but make it seem less spikey as the FAP wears off?

I have a feeling that the major issue is our healers (i've seen some doing 500 hps in which I do easily as prot) but I want to try and keep things going better on trash so I can has t6 :)
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Postby Arcand » Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:00 am

Your gear looks pretty solid.

Are you taking shadow bolts?

Are your DPS focusing? Are the healers ready for it when your FAP wears off?
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Postby Eaglestrike » Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:11 am

Are the tanks taking Aboms off you? My guild brings 1-2 warriors and 1-2 feral druids along and on the big Abom waves all 2-4 of them do everything they can to take the aboms off me but keep them in consecration/seed range. If I have 8ish mobs and two Aboms off me there's a chance I get gibbed, but only one Abom and I can normally be healed through fine. I also often change to a higher hp/armor set for the big abom waves and keep my heavy threat set for the other waves. If you are getting 3+ Aboms beating on you constantly for a wave you're going to get gibbed often, maybe not if you're full t6 or something, but before then you will for sure. Knockdown is a nasty nasty move (3.5k-4k damage along with that stun)

And like the above poster asked, are you getting shadow bolted? 3k shadow bolts + 3.5k knockdowns is a really bad combination to be taking.
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Re: Help me die less on hyjall trash

Postby jere » Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:14 am

shifttusk wrote:So i've swapped from bringing my hunter to brining my pally for hyjall and I'm the aoe tank. From what I've read here my gear is up to snuff

(easylay executus us) but I may be in ret gear.

I go into hyjall with a armor defense ( higher miss for knockdowns) moderate BV set:

Unbuff HP: 15.5k
Unbuff armor: 18k
Miss: 12.9%
Dodge: 22%
Parry: 17.5%
Block: 23%
BV is 479

My problem is after using a free action pot i get abom stunned and ripped. I've tanked this as 0/40/21 and 0/49/12 and regardless I get stomped frequently with or without AD. Should I stop using FAPs and swap to iron shields to reduce all dmg but make it seem less spikey as the FAP wears off?

I have a feeling that the major issue is our healers (i've seen some doing 500 hps in which I do easily as prot) but I want to try and keep things going better on trash so I can has t6 :)


Your stats are fine. The problem lies with the part I bolded. If your other tanks aren't pulling the aboms off of you by the time a 30s potion wears off, then they need to step up and start doing their job.

When the FAP is over, you should have about 1 abom or less on you (2 at the max). The other tanks should peel off the remaining ones from you.

Somethings you can do to help after the FAP wears off:

1. Target an abom that is targetting you and stun it
2. Pop a nightmare seed if you feel worried.
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Postby Arcand » Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:19 am

Eaglestrike wrote:1-2 warriors and 1-2 feral druids along and on the big Abom waves all 2-4 of them do everything they can to take the aboms off me but keep them in consecration/seed range


Option two, the warriors and bears grab a couple abominations and drag them around to aggro all the NPCs, then bring them back into the AoE.
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Postby shifttusk » Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:16 am

Some responses:

<<Are you taking shadow bolts? >> Occasionaly but this has never been the cause of my dying it is always later in the pull with aboms on me.

<<Are your DPS focusing? Are the healers ready for it when your FAP wears off?>>

The dps in our raid is amazing and very coordinated. The heals are generaly good its just in a few specific spots (khaz wave 8) my fap seem to just wear off and I die.

<<Are the tanks taking Aboms off you? My guild brings 1-2 warriors and 1-2 feral druids along and on the big Abom waves all 2-4 of them do everything they can to take the aboms off me but keep them in consecration/seed range>>

I think this is the problem we're generaly bringing 2 warriors and myself or 1 war 1 druid and myself and they generaly snag one abom each. IF ther are no necro shadowbolt mobs. In that case one of them is usualy working on those mobs.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:17 am

It's plain and simple: Pulls with abominations hurt.
You should have a grand total of three tanks in the raid, maybe four. These 2 or 3's job is to tank themselves an abomination or maybe a necro(warriors are always better in front of you so you can do a better HW, and he or she can reflect the shadow bolts).
Plus, your healers have to know you WILL take a spiky fuckton of damage if you're tanking an abomination. I've often tanked 2 or 3 alongside with all ghouls and fiends and survived, but the healers do go like "wtf?". They have to be prepared for very high damage when abominations are in.
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Postby Tiandelin » Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:44 am

If at all possible, have a warrior stand just in front of you on waves that include necros and banshees, ready to spell reflect. It takes some practice, but you can time holy wrath so that it goes off just as the melee mobs reach him. At least, that's how my guild does it.

Also, don't focus on block stats to an extent where they cut deeply into your stamina. As I've said elsewhere, ghouls and crypt fiends don't kill you... or if they do, then something is very wrong. Abomination knockdown + ghouls and crypt fiends are what kills you. Gear toward compensating for the real danger in the fight.

Regardless, the healers should be on their toes on any wave with aboms. If you get knocked down and die, it's probably because someone else (other tanks or healers) messed up. You might want to give them warning when your FAP is about to wear off, since that might help wake them up. :)
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Postby shifttusk » Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:57 am

Snake-Aes wrote:It's plain and simple: Pulls with abominations hurt.
You should have a grand total of three tanks in the raid, maybe four. These 2 or 3's job is to tank themselves an abomination or maybe a necro(warriors are always better in front of you so you can do a better HW, and he or she can reflect the shadow bolts).
Plus, your healers have to know you WILL take a spiky fuckton of damage if you're tanking an abomination. I've often tanked 2 or 3 alongside with all ghouls and fiends and survived, but the healers do go like "wtf?". They have to be prepared for very high damage when abominations are in.


I was mostly dying from khaz wave 8 which I think I had 4 aboms plus the ghouls and 4 fiends on me. There are 6 in that pull if I remember right.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:08 pm

shifttusk wrote:
Snake-Aes wrote:It's plain and simple: Pulls with abominations hurt.
You should have a grand total of three tanks in the raid, maybe four. These 2 or 3's job is to tank themselves an abomination or maybe a necro(warriors are always better in front of you so you can do a better HW, and he or she can reflect the shadow bolts).
Plus, your healers have to know you WILL take a spiky fuckton of damage if you're tanking an abomination. I've often tanked 2 or 3 alongside with all ghouls and fiends and survived, but the healers do go like "wtf?". They have to be prepared for very high damage when abominations are in.


I was mostly dying from khaz wave 8 which I think I had 4 aboms plus the ghouls and 4 fiends on me. There are 6 in that pull if I remember right.
That's a stretch :) Remember that they can be Stunned and Turned, and that a druid or warrior tank can easily hold aggro on 2 and still not take deadly spikes.
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Postby iwillpunishu » Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:01 am

We use 2 tanks either feral or prot warriors, and myself, we use a rogue or dps warrior for the casters. The 2 other tanks have got too take the abominations off of you. I can usually handle 2, but anything more is asking for trouble. Ideally if your other tanks are doing their jobs. You should be tanking zero or one.
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Postby Arcand » Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:28 am

Won't kill you to have a few shackles in there, either.

Just 'cause you can hold aggro on a whole wave doesn't mean it's a good idea.
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Postby Holyfuri » Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:23 am

Arcand wrote:Won't kill you to have a few shackles in there, either.

Just 'cause you can hold aggro on a whole wave doesn't mean it's a good idea.


Lol, I've tried stuff like that before. It rarely works well in raids because there's just too much crap there.

For example first time we cleared the trash after supremus, we get one of the large groups with the dog by accident (because the dogs aggro from like 99 yds!!!)

Holyfuri casts avenging wrath
Holyfuri casts consecrate
Holyfuri: They are all on me, keep me up!
random raid member dies
random raid member dies
random raid member dies
random raid member dies
random raid member dies
random raid member dies
random raid member dies
Holyfuri is afflicted by gouge
Holyfuri: well fuck....
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Postby Huon » Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:19 pm

^
what he said haha. I always thought it was because the rogue gets aggro and then chains to the big group.

but yea, there is also that dam little tornado thing going around and vanishing ><
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Postby bomjac » Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:45 pm

We have tried the peel some off approach, the sheep/cc some casters, and even the pala tanks 6 aboms at one time approach. The last approach was successfull if somewhat hairy.

Now all our RL looks for at the start of the fight is 10k+ overheal on the tank and away we go until the other tanks peel a few off me. It is risky and usually takes one wipe to waken the healers up to it. Usually I end up with 2 aboms + trash at most.

The mobs on me are usually pulled down past the entrance then manoevered back up to the casters so that everything is AoEd down together. Melee working on the casters all the time

As for the casters - on a caster heavy wave SR enchanted Nights End cloak provides enough SR coupled with priest buffs to make the casters survivable, again with massive overhealing. This is switched in only on the caster heavy waves.

Stat wise - pretty much the same as yourself, runing 500-550 BV, 550 SD and around 26% block (110% avoidance with HS up). I did try tweaking it to 36% block, but that was a total disaster as the dps was just too much for them to heal through.
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