Getting started in heroics

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Getting started in heroics

Postby Kirotokai » Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:59 am

So I've cleared all the TBC instances non-heroic, showed them all who their daddy is and whatnot, and now I'm trying to move into heroics. People keep telling me that I should be pretty much ready, but I don't feel comfortable with it. Me and some friends did some heroic ramparts, but it felt like those mobs were just ripping me apart (I'm keeping Holy Shield up at all times and activating my avoidance trinkets as much as possible). I remember a long time ago when I started running heroics on my shaman (almost a year ago now), I was hanging out with a paladin who was also getting pretty much ripped to shreds by them, but I didn't remember it being as bad as I see it being now. Is my gear really ok for heroics and I'm just being too cautious or should I stick to normal instances for a while and keep doing SSO dailies until I can get that shield and get lucky enough to get enough badges for a piece of gear or two? I run with pretty much a premade of some real life friends who are all in the same guild, so we have communication and the group concept down pat.

Like I said, we tried it one time and I've gotten some better pieces since then and I think I might be ready, but I just want to get a few words of encouragement saying "yeah, you're ready" or if I'm not then "get X for Y slot" would be helpful. We're making our attempt to break into heroics starting next week :)

Oh, here's my armory:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... =Kirotokai

Just some info on our group make-up too, if it's even relevant
Resto Druid
Combat Swords Rogue
Enhancement Shaman
Fire Mage
Me
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Postby Haganomir » Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:14 am

My gear was almost identical to yours when I started (and well - it still is). If the healer has a lot of +heal and knows what he is doing you should be fine, if not you have 2,5 CC classes so you should be fine anyway. Start with Slave Pens to get your group a feel for it, as its the easiest of all heroics imho and the druid can apply CC to those anoying Bats and other mobs.

The main thing I would do, if you can afford it would be to replace the +9 stam gems with +12 if you can afford it. The reason being you have around 1,5k health unbuffed less then me when I started and even with a 2,5k +heal priest I was down to 10-20% quite often and I have the feeling that those 1,5k health realy saved my ass more than anything else.

If your able to get the 15 badge Libram you should be uncrushable already.

On a sidenot: Look up on wowwiki wich CC works on wich mobs in heroic as there is quite a diffrence and it helps if the CCers assigned to a mob can actualy take them out :)
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Postby Kirotokai » Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:52 am

Hmm, do you think maybe it's an issue of my healer's +heal? He's got a little under 1.2k I think. Here is HIS armory...it just so happens to be my little brother :)

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... =Roshkaran

I hope it's not! Because he's in some pretty decent gear and I would be very surprised. I only bring it up though because you said your priest had 2.5k +heal? I was thinking it could possibly be because of the druid's heals being HoT in nature?

I will look at getting +12 stam gems, too. My gear is/was a lot more geared toward being uncrushable until lately because it looked like I was going be tanking (whether OT or MT, I don't know) Karazhan for another guild, but that's not going to happen so me and my group of my RL friends are gonna be doing heroics for a while. I only say all of that because it explains why I so obviously stacked defense over the 490, trying to squeeze out as much avoidance as I could, and am lacking a bit of stamina that I could have had I not gone strictly for the 5-man oriented stats.
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Postby Nikachelle » Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:15 am

I can't see your gear because I'm at work and the armory is blocked, but can you give me a brief rundown of what your hp and armor is? Of course, skill always beats out stats, but your gear meshed with your healer's gear makes a difference. I can easily get through heroics with a +1200heal priest only doing hots on me and dpsing on the side. but I've got 14.5k unbuffed health and something like 15k armor. When I started heroics at ~11k hp and maybe 12k armor, I could barely be kept up by somebody with 1600+heal. (I'm guessing those stats, but they couldn't have been too far off.)

Edit: Also, what's your avoidance like?
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Postby Neara » Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:20 am

You're uncrittable, you're motivated and you have a fixed group (not some random-guys who expect only T5 and better geared people to be in the lfg-tool ) - go for it!

Just try what you can do, start with easy heroics and try the harder ones, after you cleared them.


I'd start with Slave Pens. After that you can try Underbog (if the two Boglords in front of the first boss are to much for you, tell the Shaman to help healing)
Botanica is easy, too (maybe skip the Demon, having two Meeles in the group makes him a bit harder)


Just having the same group of friends for heroics makes so much more possible than with PuGs, just play the game and try everything out.



(@ your healer - i don't know much about Druids, but if i remember correctly theres no much point as a PvE-healer to put any points outside the Restoration-tree)
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Postby Kirotokai » Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:01 pm

11,077 HP
4,578 Mana
217 Spell Dmg

11551 Armor
16.8% Dodge
16.88% Parry
23.42% Block

Nika, your stats when starting heroics are very close to mine now.

And, thanks for the words of encouragement Neara :)
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Postby Nikachelle » Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:34 pm

Kirotokai wrote:11,077 HP
4,578 Mana
217 Spell Dmg

11551 Armor
16.8% Dodge
16.88% Parry
23.42% Block

Nika, your stats when starting heroics are very close to mine now.

And, thanks for the words of encouragement Neara :)


Okay, from my own experience with those stats... you couldn't mark skull, run in and consecrate and expect to live. When I started out, I needed cc, and I needed it done well. Good sheeping or a rogue's sap were my primary cc methods.

Your dodge is, and I'm sorry to say this because I know it takes a lot of hard work to get the gear, is rather low. Try to aim for 24-25% dodge. That's a bit high for your gear level I think, but try to gety some gems and enchants to add more onto your dodge. That extra 10% is a lot of wiggle room for healers.

Like Neara said, pugs are bad places to start heroics. Guildies are more forgiving and encouraging. If you must pug, try to only pug a person or two of your group.
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Postby argentevenin » Sat Jul 05, 2008 3:19 pm

good old days of 3 badge mech everyday = win :D
shame they nerfed it lol
but for starting heroic go with SP :>
ssc: 6/6 TK: 4/4 BT: 6/9 MH: 5/5
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Postby mgkeeper » Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:01 pm

Well the other guys told you that u need to improve dodge rating (which is very accurate) but i will tell you that try to put Enchants Stamina on everywhere u can, and Gem +12 Stamina. I 1st started heroics without any stamina gem and without enchants and my 1st was Rambarts HC (silly me)..
I got it together with a good group (cc is very important there) and i got up to 3 boss (Nazzan) which i could just kill it! Then i did my enchants and now i am tanking easilly Mech HC, Ramparts HC, BF HC, SP HC, SV HC, UB HC, BOT HC. Go check my stats at http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=genjuros&n=socratis

And always check this site out cause it's The Best Site about Tankadins!!

p.s. Thank You Guys for Putting up and Continue to update this forum!!
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Postby Lakirby » Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:47 pm

Getting a new shield would be very worthwhile - whether you go for one of the SSO shields, or one of the S2 ones. The difference in armor and stamina will make a noticeable difference to your survivability as tank in heroics.
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Postby Neara » Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:40 pm

Nikachelle wrote:Try to aim for 24-25% dodge.



oO ... I had ~19-20% dodge while tanking Magtheridon and i went OOM. And you want 25% for heroics?
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Postby Falkman » Sun Jul 06, 2008 3:00 am

Neara wrote:oO ... I had ~19-20% dodge while tanking Magtheridon and i went OOM. And you want 25% for heroics?

I run heroics in my normal MT gear which is at around 27% dodge, and I rarely go OOM, i just judge wisdom on mobs i fight, and after a few consecrates I seal wisdom too, because no one can catch up in threat anyway.
I guess you can't do just the same on Maggy, but try weaving some wisdom seals in when you start to get low, and then switch back to righteousness once your mana gets back a bit, I usually do that on Prince.
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Postby Zapherik » Sun Jul 06, 2008 3:19 am

I have nowhere near 25% dodge and i do great on all heroics. I have about 17% dodge and parry and 28% block. I sit at 14.4K hp unbuffed with about 350 SD and 16.5k armor. I have found that the higher block rating is nice since you still take damage but at a much reduced rate so the healer still has to heal you so you are getting a steady stream of mana.
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Postby davidred » Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:16 pm

I'd say replace the +9 stam with +12 stam gems so you can squeeze out a bit more unbuffed HP and use as much CC as your group can provide when first starting into heroics.

I had pretty similiar gear to yours when I started and by standing with only tanking one mob and getting a feel for it and particularly your healer getting a feel for it it became a lot easier, then I got more gear and could tank 2 mobs and so on.

I started off tanking Mech (dont forget to stun the charged fist fella) and then moved onto Ramps and found them a little easier than SP - but everyones different.
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Postby Tiranknight » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:04 pm

Side question... what is a comfortable gear level to start running Heroic Magister's Terrace? without the fear of being destroyed... Really want the Commendation but afraid to go in that place because of the tanking horror stories I've heard.

if I'm able to clear instances like Heroic Bot, and Shattered Halls... will I be ok in Hero MgT with competent players?
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