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Kalecgos, Brutallus, Felmyst, M'uru, Entropius, Kil'jaeden

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Postby Joanadark » Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:52 pm

Seems to me that Deathfrost would be a great enchant for a Sinsiter Reflections tank.

15% melee attack speed reduction
15% spell casting speed reduction
15% movement speed reduction

chances are this would be a case where DPS are gonna be too busy to run over and thunderclap/CoT/mind-numbing/whatever 100% of the time, and it'd be a nice addition to your control over the mobs.
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Postby Cakes » Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:22 pm

If only I could get it to proc consistantly.
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Postby Sechs » Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:04 pm

I find it really hard and really messy to move the casters, As one of them always decide it's a good idea to start melee. BAM --> i get 3 of them in one place and the last one 15 yards away. x_x

The macro Joanadark gave me works like a charm recommend all use it -->

/targetexact Sinister reflection
/cast Avenger's Shield(Rank 3)

Be careful tho it still cast the shield if you have kj targeted.

About dieing on the adds they do hit hard but its not like it's unheal able by a holy pally, you guys using some threat gear? Am using full tank with about 450 spell dmg total.
Have noticed some close calls on threat when warlocks start aoeing which is kinda brothering me the most right now. :p
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Postby rozakk » Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:40 pm

i dont have survivability issues (except on warlocks) and using over 600 spell dmg atm when buffed. on warlocks and mages a feral druid will try to take 1 or 2. My locks basically start ae'ing the moment the mobs get to me and dont pull threat, with a little buffer time for casters since i have to get over there usually. It's a pretty huge deal - the faster they die, the faster healers dont have to worry about us, and the more they can dedicate to raid heals/survival.
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Postby rozakk » Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:30 pm

guild just killed kiljaeden, will put a fraps here when he's finished it. was definitely not a clean kill (no dragon, killed before darkness at 1% lawl). Unforunately i was playing from a hotel wireless and my ping was 800 but other than having to time darknesses extraspecial it was fairly straightforward as far as our role (though definiteley more fun than void spawn tanking on muru). I stacked a bit of spell dmg (650) and had dodge around 32%, parry 18% block 19 and defense 510.

edit: here's the video ... einfo.html

- unfortunately our narcissistic enc shaman decided to max zoom on himself so its not a very useful video. in wave1 you see me running off screen to grab hunters and in the last wave i get roflowned on warlocks after ot'ing until 2% (i think i'll suggest next time to just kill them rather than ot the last 25, though our kiljaeden tank had died at 29 so things were kinda hectic). The middle wave though you can see how quickly the adds can go down with a pally tanking. Depending on the number of ae classes you have your mileage may vary.
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Postby Sechs » Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:22 am

Yeah found that using a spell dmg trinket helps alot on the 50% and 25% adds as thats are time when much shit is happening and they need to go down fast so ppl can concentrate on other stuff.
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Postby Eender » Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:32 pm

Just a tip if you are going to AE the adds down. We use 3 warlocs seeding the adds down. This works really well. First set of adds they go balls to the wall and then shatter. Second set of adds I pop wings. 3rd set of adds they shatter again as it is up again. This allows very fast killing of reflections without worry of threat on top of keeping survivability for yourself over sacrificing for threat. Dunno if this will help anyone, but this is the way we do it.


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Postby Eender » Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:14 am

So, I figured I would toss out there what I do for KJ since this thread has been pretty much dead but I am sure there are a ton of people still working on him. The following is just a copy paste of what I posted in our private strat forum while we were working on him:

I start off the encounter tanking the Hand which isn't all that hard. I save my hammer for a couple scenarios (I'm spiking and could die, my healer is spiking and could die, my stacks of debuffs gets high and wont clear, as dps walks up and are starting to kill my mob) Congratulations, you know know what I do for P1.

P2: KJ will now start to pop up. I run around the circle along the melee till KJ becomes active. I then Exorcise him so that I am top on threat till the tank gets agro just to try and give him a less squishy target if one is selected. At the same instant I do that I also judge Wisdom. Then I proceed to run to the back of the room to keep out of Firebloom range of other people only to run in range and Mana Tap on cooldowns. If I get low on mana from Legion Lightning I will call out that I am going to stack on someone with bloom so that I can recoup some mana from SA. When KJ hits 86% I go stack on Square so that I will have the best range capabilities for reflections when they spawn.

P3: KJ has hit 85%. He will stop targeting anyone for a second and during this time I am spamming my /targetexact macro. If you do this when reflections pop you will usually be able to see who they spawned from in their target frame as well for a fraction of a second (this helps alot). NOTE***: You will need a metric shit ton of consumables of a variable and vast selection for this which I will go over later in the post. I then make sure to be in range and throw my Avenger's Shield. While this is flying I am running towards them (usualy) and putting up seal or righteousness for the one that I didn't hit with shield. This also puts me in range for consecrate usualy. I then procede to pull the reflections to the melee spot 2 or 3 spots left of square (depending on who is on what spot over there at the time of the raid). Sometimes this will not be possible depending on what type of Reflection call it is. Once I get into position I will call for AE to start dpsing. This dps consists of 3 warlocs. They will keep dpsing until the first collapse is called and then shatter to help not pull agro. You keep dpsing the adds till they are dead and then go back to your spot in the back of the room and wait for 55%. During this time I also toss out flash of light to help out the healers as my mana and range permit.

P4: This is exactly the same as P3 with two exceptions. First off, once you get the reflections where you want them and start tanking them you pop Avenging Wrath as you call for the start of DPS. This gives the warlocs more of a buffer for agro since they don't have shatter up atm. Secondly, you have to watch for meteors coming down on top of your head. Also, on every Reflection wave you must be watching for the Shadow Spike debuff (think MS in PvP) and calling this loud and clear on vent for your healers or you will die and the raid will wipe.

P5: This is exactly the same as P3 with the exception of also having to watch for meteors as you did in P4. YOU MUST BE VERY AWARE OF YOUR SURROUNDINGS, as there is a metric shit ton of stuff going on during this phase.

Consumables needed to fulfill this job task:
Free Action Potions
Ironshield Potions
Nightmare Seeds
Flask of Blinding Light
30 Stam Food
Superior Wizard Oil

Druids, Shaman, Rogue: These mobs move very easily and are melee mobs with a secondary attack that is cast at random ppl in the raid with exception of the rogue. Druids Moonfire which stack and needs to be dispelled. Shaman cast earth shock so grounding totems are dropped to counteract this. Rogues Hemorrhage which hits like a truck on 25k armor with out inspiration (3-3.5k each x 3-4 mobs..) For these 3 calls I use Ironshield potions and execute the strat which was posted above.

Mage & Warloc: Casters suck balls... These guys will hopefully spawn right next to KJ unless the person they spawned off of had blooms. If they are not next to KJ it needs to be called to DPS them directly. Mages wont move at all and warlocs move too slowly to make it feasible to drag them to KJ. If a mage call you switch auras over to FR. I do not know of a secondary attack the mage does other than just Fireball spam on it's highest threat target. Warlocs will shadowbolt spam with Curse of Agony mixed in (which stacks btw). No special consumables needed other than a probable Shadowmoon Insignia/Nightmare Seed pop to keep you alive as you take stupid spike damage from these reflections.

Priest & Paladin: These both melee as their primary attack. For Priests, they are easy enough to move so just use my normal strat from them and use Ironshield potions. The have a smite secondary attack which hits for 2k each and they cast it regularly. Paladins are a bit more of a pain in the ass. They hit relatively hard with their melee and their secondary attack is HoJ. For Paladins, as soon as my shield hits I pop a free action potion. This allows me to gain agro on all 4 paladins and then MOVE them where they need to go. When in position it is more of the same with DPS. The reason I classed these 2 together is that both need spam dispells. Priests need spammed with offensive dispels (to get rid of renew on mobs) and Paladins need spammed defensive dispels (to get rid of HoJ).

Warrior: These are pure melee spawns that hit pretty hard. Their secondary attack is Whirlwind which rapes non tanks. These are also the most dangerous mobs for the the safety of the raid and some of the hardest to position as it is very important where they are located. For these reflections I pop an Ironshield potion. I start out by doing my usual opening sequence and just running directly to where I want them tanked. While doing this I will call on vent for the person who's spot I am going to be using to move so that they have a heads up I am coming to them. By the time the mobs reach you consecration should be down. It is important that you get the reflections stacked on top of eachother as much as possible and you get them exactly on the spot of the displaced melee DPS you bumped out so that no one else gets hit with Whirlwind.

Hunters: These guys are a pain in the cock. Think of BT Wing Clip (roots you in place and mob runs off and laughs at you). These guys are physical DPS. If they are at range they ranged attack you and if they are in melee they melee you like they were a rogue. They hit HARD. For these guys I will throw my shield and run at them while popping my faps. When I get there I lay a consecrate. Now, I kite them back to the DPS spot walking backwards slow but steady. The reason I don't just book ass to my spot is that if you get out of melee range of any of the hunters they will just stand there and range you instead of moving. These guys take a while to get into position. Once they are in position I make sure to place them between myself and KJ so that their backs are to KJ. That way, if you DO get Wing Clipped they run away from you through KJ and are still in seed range. Once faps is wearing off I call out in vent clearly for a freedom. This will lengthen the time that the reflections will not run away from you and allow you to keep building threat.

Couple things to note:
I try and save bubble as much as possible. Sometimes I have to use it to clear a brand new Fire Bloom right before a reflection spawn. Sometimes I need to blow it because I am too far away from the bubble after tanking reflections. Sometimes you have to blow it cause you either didn't get a freedom while doing hunter call and darkness is going on or you didn't get dispelled outside of bubble while darkness is going off.

I use Ret Aura exclusively with the exception of Mages.

Make sure you have thorns. It isn't a ton of damage or threat but every little bit helps.

You must have a VERY good line of communication with your off tank. They save your life and control the chaos. Talk with them beforehand and hammer out how you are going to handle situations before you step in the zone.


Like I said, just what I did/do. Wont work for everyone most probably but it might help some. Hope this helps!


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Postby wayjin » Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:51 pm

We killed him at last the other day, and I can't find anything to add to Eender's post. I agree with him on about everything, I used the same consumable, and did pretty much the same.

I didn't have any "offtank" tho, i was the only prot spec'ed class in the whole raid.

Just for emphasis sake, you MUST have Free Action Potions for hunters and (to some extent) paladin's reflections.
On top of it, you should freedom yourself after Fap effect wear off when facing hunters. Call on vent for another freedom if needed.

Another point to emphasis, is that you really must keep your bubble to remove a firebloom on you right before reflections are due. For ex, if you get bloom @ 90% odds are good that you won't have to bubble it (you might have to run thru the raid with 1 or 2s left on it, but one "tick" of bloom in the raid is acceptable).

As Eender said, casters' refections are a pain in the ass since you can't move them. Whoever is designing your strat must ask mage/locks to move into melee range when reflections are due. Having reflections at the back of the raid isn't just bad, it's very bad. Bad because all the caster's might not be in range (soc range = 20yard?), and very bad because all that AOE damage isnt hitting KJ... big dps loss.

On a completely different note, does anybody else experienced deaths due to the bomb even standing inside the Shield? I'm NOT talking about somebody who ran into the shield 0.3s before the bomb and died anyway (his fault).
Over 100(++? not sure) attempts, we had many case of people dying within the shield. Most of them have been standing in there since shield was up, they didn't try to run out early, they didn't do anything special, and still died. We had just so many bomb going off, with the raid cleanly stacked up inside, and leaving between one to four (4!!) dead for...... absolutely no reasons ! Oh and most of the time, the shield had 1-3s left to go, It was't a "borderline early" shield.
In most case, the combat log reads as :
Shield of the blue fade from you
Darkness of the thousand souls hits you for 50k

We assumed that the buff you get from standing inside the bubble (Shield of the blue) refreshs at 0s, and if you are a bit laggy (oceania latency...), bomb can hit you within that 250ms-ish and take full damage?
Well that total guesswork, we tried to ask a GM, and he actually watched some of our attempts but

The GM wasn't able to help us :D
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Postby Eender » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:14 am

Well, one of our guys made a vid of our last kill. Was a 1 shot. Hope it helps and/or you enjoy: ... einfo.html


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Postby Sechs » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:03 am

Would like to add that i use Flask of Chromatic Wonder (the forgotten flask :p )
As me and my healers come to the conclusion warlocks and mages are harder to heal then the melee reflections.
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Postby Grims » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:35 pm

/targetexact Finstere Spiegelung
/stopmacro [target=target, noexists]
/cast Schild des Rächers(Rang 3)

thats the one i use ... you can spam it at 86% ... 56%
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Postby Worldie » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:08 pm

I assume the fintereblabla stands for Sinister Reflectin and what you cast is Avenger's Shield (you don't need th specify the rank, it'll use the maximum rank automatically)
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Postby Ryu » Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:41 pm

So, we're working on KJ at the moment, dealing with some standard learning issues, but one thing that annoys me is that about half of the time I'm not able to pick up the Reflections up asap, because they spawn at someone standing far away. I position myself in the middle of everyone at like 86% and spam the previously mentioned macro but find myself OOR alot, and by the time i can throw an AV and lay down cons, 1 or 2 run to raid members already.
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Postby Atreidies » Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:50 pm

Ryu wrote:So, we're working on KJ at the moment, dealing with some standard learning issues, but one thing that annoys me is that about half of the time I'm not able to pick up the Reflections up asap, because they spawn at someone standing far away. I position myself in the middle of everyone at like 86% and spam the previously mentioned macro but find myself OOR alot, and by the time i can throw an AV and lay down cons, 1 or 2 run to raid members already.

I was having the same problem, what we changed was positioning one hunter on either side of the raid to simply MD+Multi-Shot into the adds and a cat druid for our melee group was charging over to make sure that between my shield and the multi we got all 4, if things are copasetic, he goes back to business, if not he picks up the 4th and i grab it off him.
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