Remove Advertisements

Trash waves and Aggro issues

Winterchill, Anetheron, Kaz'rogal, Azgalor, Archimonde

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Trash waves and Aggro issues

Postby wri7913 » Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:04 pm

Has anyone had aggro issues on trash waves? I ask this because quite a few of our warlocks ended up dying due to getting aggro. They were all seeding the mobs that were on me. I believe my gear is up to standard for doing Hyjal. My spell damage is around 450 to 500 and I'm using the consecrate libram to increase dmg numbers.

I believe my main issue may come from the other Tanks attempting to pull mobs off me. On some of the waves, they should not be pulling anything off me, but on others with aboms and necromancers, they should be assisting to separate the group. At least this is my understanding of the fights from reading strats here. It seems though, that many of the tanks are taunting off a few mobs out of the pack I'm tanking in some cases directly taunting off me. Would these cause my aggro to drop to zero and lose all the mobs? The only other thing I can think of is DPS is pulling aggro and the mobs run to them. Has anyone else experienced this and what is a suggestion to work around it? I'm thinking the warriors should intervene when they are not busy tanking anything.

here is link to my armory http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Llane&n=Ghaazi
wri7913
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:54 am

Postby Lookit » Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:17 pm

When someone else taunts a mob off you, it doesn't reduce your aggro at all. It gives them an amount equal to yours and forces the mob to attack them, meaning that you would then need 110% aggro to pull the mob back.

I would try to get your spell damage a little higher (I try to run with 600-650 and I still occasionally lose aggro, but infrequently enough that it's easy to just taunt the mob back and keep going). Flasks of Blinding Light are great, along with SD food and wizard oil. If you can snag a shaman with WoA totem, even better.

I would also let your locks know that they will live a lot longer if they wait a few seconds before seeding everything up. If they just do some shadowbolt spam on the main kill target for 8-10 seconds, and THEN open up with seeds, the pulls will go a lot smoother.
Image
User avatar
Lookit
 
Posts: 255
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:17 am

Postby wri7913 » Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:25 pm

I've been using Spell dmg food and Wizard oil to get above 500. With nothing buffing me my spell dmg is usually around 425 or so. I'll try Flasks of Blinding Light, tho that means I'll have to give up Fortification.
wri7913
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:54 am

Postby inthedrops » Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:13 pm

wri7913 wrote:I've been using Spell dmg food and Wizard oil to get above 500. With nothing buffing me my spell dmg is usually around 425 or so. I'll try Flasks of Blinding Light, tho that means I'll have to give up Fortification.


Give up fort for light and it will help you and your dps a lot.

If you were here complaining about dieing all the time then I might be suggesting that you use fort instead of light. But that's not what you're complaining about is it :)

Also, I used to use the health guardian elixir (forgot the name) and the spell damage battle elixir (also forgot the name). That's essentially the best of both worlds.
inthedrops
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 1281
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:19 am

Postby Seloei » Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:48 am

If the locks are pulling agro on every single trash wave then you either need a lot more spelldamage or they just need to know how not to start off the moment they are walking down the hill. Also they have soulshatter, it's on a long cooldown but still.

I run with 500'sh unbuffed spelldamage and we have some really decked locks and only rarely do the mobs ignore me and go for him. (SD food, oil, flask). Warrior/druid infront to take the caster blow. Holy Wrath, consecrate, hs, step back (pop a fr pot if you feel you need to) to the aoe spot. Spam consecrate like no tommorow. Judge/seal wisdom on one mob.

If you are still having problems keeping agro and the locks aren't willing to change their reckless suicidal seeding times, go pick up Stratholme Holy Water. it's an extra 1k threat every 2 minutes on every undead mob.
Image
Seloei
 
Posts: 1130
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Estonia

Postby Ketsurui » Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:51 am

LoLRet.
Ketsurui
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:43 am
Location: Gorgonnash

Postby QuantumDelta » Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:30 am

I normally run ahead of the entire raid and kite them back (CAREFULLY combat flag = run like shit+drop consec cuz shadowbolts will be coming..and you don't want many of those more than 4 could be lethal).

Then get the AoErs to focus on the non-aoe (necromancers always always first always) trash like necro's/an abom or two then aoe.
Ours still pull agro off me if they go too early - and I let them die for it.
They soon stop.


The other trick is to use the AoE trash as a agro pile for the base mobs, if you kite them around the base collecting all the NPCs with them the AoErs wont be able to aoe them :P

But yea, Seloei gave a good bunch of tips too.
nani shini umareta no? nani shini koko ni iru?
ikinokoritai, umaranai kizum, hikari osoreteta
Image
User avatar
QuantumDelta
 
Posts: 1191
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:31 am

Postby Kalakaua » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:27 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the problem is that the warlocks are getting killed by 1 stray mob that gets pulled off while they're doing their AoE.

Some mobs (crypt fiends in particular) don't immediately come into your consecrate or for whatever reason, you dodge/parry all their attacks so they don't get hit by ret aura/holyshield/blessing of sanctuary. Whatever the case, often 1 or 2 mobs in the pack won't have nearly as much aggro on them as the rest of the mobs. That 1 mob is usually the one that runs off to smack a warlock or healer.

What I do is cycle through all the mobs I'm tanking while I'm tanking them using the tab button. I assume you have Omen or some other functional threat meter that can tell you how much threat you have on each mob. When I come to a mob that has noticeably less threat on it than the others, I judge righteousness on it and/or exorcism which quickly brings up my threat on that mob.

When I'm feeling lazier, I just aoe tank as normal, but keep my camera zoomed out. Since the warlocks are using seed of corruption from a distance, you have some time to taunt any mob that separates from the pack before it reaches the squishy. Remember, Righteous Defense doesn't require you to actually face the mob you're taunting.
Kalakaua
 
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 11:05 am

Postby Snake-Aes » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:39 am

1: Seed of corruption is OP.


AOErs still have to mind threat with paladins, specially with mobs that take longer than others to enter consecration(crypt fiends). Typically I ninjataunt them back to me and exorcise, otherwise the other tanks pick them up. I usually tank 1-2 abominations alongside with everything else.
Image
I am not allowed to seduce the abyssal's lunar mate.
User avatar
Snake-Aes
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 15538
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:15 am
Location: Thorns

Postby Tiandelin » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:02 am

Even with ridiculous spell damage (I usually have well over 800 to consecration), it's still easy for well-geared destro locks to pull aggro from you. Unfortunately, it's pretty much an unavoidable consequence of the mechanics of SoC:

1) SoC can crit.
2) SoC crits do double damage for destro locks.
3) Lots of mobs means some will be crit several times in a row.

The chances of any one mob getting multiple crits from SoC is fairly good when you have nearly a dozen on you. The offtanks and I just keep an eye out for the warlocks and taunt any mobs that run after them. As the posters above me noted, ranged taunt + exorcism is handy here.

If the warlocks are drawing several mobs instead of just one or two, they are either extremely lucky or engaging too early. Tell them to wait a few seconds and to make sure that everything is in your consecrate before seeding.
Tiandelin - Co-MT of Monolith, Area 52 US
Tiandelin
 
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:34 am

Postby wri7913 » Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:30 pm

Seloei wrote:If the locks are pulling agro on every single trash wave then you either need a lot more spelldamage or they just need to know how not to start off the moment they are walking down the hill. Also they have soulshatter, it's on a long cooldown but still.

I run with 500'sh unbuffed spelldamage and we have some really decked locks and only rarely do the mobs ignore me and go for him. (SD food, oil, flask). Warrior/druid infront to take the caster blow. Holy Wrath, consecrate, hs, step back (pop a fr pot if you feel you need to) to the aoe spot. Spam consecrate like no tommorow. Judge/seal wisdom on one mob.

If you are still having problems keeping agro and the locks aren't willing to change their reckless suicidal seeding times, go pick up Stratholme Holy Water. it's an extra 1k threat every 2 minutes on every undead mob.


I actually beginning to think the aggro issues may not be coming from me. We have a known Warrior tank who can't hold aggro for crap. My girlfriend has one of our decked out locks in the group and she does 1 - 2 shadowbolts and pulls aggro. She said it usually takes 8 - 9 SB's before she pulls from me.

This past Sunday we went in with that Warrior on his Shadow Priest alt. We also made other slight changes to the raid. One of our shammy healers dropped Air of Tranquility for 20% threat reduction and grouped him with the Locks. Since they were going to have the highest threat due to seed that's the way we decided to go. We also had two pally tanks. I'm not so sure having two pally tanks helped but there were very few pulling issues or loose stragglers attacking casters. Yes a few peeps died but overall it was far less than our wedensday attempt.

For my threat, I used Flask of Blinding Light, Wizard Oil, but kept Stam food to keep HP up a bit. My overall SD was about 560'ish, which I think was sufficient.
wri7913
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:54 am

Postby ldeboer » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:42 pm

I do it with alot less spell damage than you was 398 unbuffed before I got my Hammer last week. There are 4 keys I have found

1. Drop consecrate up hill retreat and use "holy wrath" gives you a sizable agro lead.

2. Make sure locks know not to start seeding until a good 5 or 6 seconds after you take stationary position.

3. Get the locks to stand up behind the riflemen so even if they pull agro it has to come thru them.

4. Know what soul shatter is and use it :) yes I am serious :)


With that config its easy to spot the gumby lock who pulled agro cause the add will walk behind you simply target it target its target and cast RD. I have a macro that does it auto for me.
Image
Image
Image
ldeboer
 
Posts: 553
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:13 pm
Location: Perth Australia

Late T6 dps

Postby Avine » Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:44 am

Instead of creating a new topic, I figured I'd just bump an existing one with a related question.

Quick background: We're a guild that is just starting out Sunwell, but has been farming MH and BT long enough that most of our DPS has 4 or 5 pieces of T6 and most of the associated non-set slot pieces. I just picked up my 4 piece bonus last night, still no chest, so I'm using the Legs for the bonus for now.

On to my actual question: How much spell damage are paladin tanks that are in similar situation running in Hyjal? I'm topping out over 800 buffed, but am still having occasional issues later in the each wave with locks or mages pulling mobs off, specifically Crypt Fiends, with Seed/AoE damage. They almost never pull a ghoul or an abomination off of me.

Link to armory:

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... an&n=Avine

The gloves will get the +threat enchant today when I log in, and I see that I'm logged out with my spell damage neck piece. I normally run the trash with the that, the Illidari Runeshield, Icon of the Silver Crescent and Consecrate libram.
Image
Avine
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:28 pm

Postby inthedrops » Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:35 am

They're pulling the crypt fiends because you'll notice they are always the last to get to your AoE party, so you have the least threat on them. Either ask the locks to be aware of where the crypt fiends are before they start seeding, or just stop trying to save them and let them figure it out on their own.

I run that place with 800'ish spell damage too and they are typically too impatient to wait so they start seeding early. I will say one thing in TS about it but after that I let the locks tank.
inthedrops
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 1281
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:19 am

Postby Torquemada » Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:48 am

Get a Ret Pally in your group and make sure he's using Sanctity Aura. Get a Shammy(Preferably Resto or Elemental) to drop Wrath of Air totem. Make sure you're flasking with the Blinding Light flask, Wizard Oil, and +damage food. Make sure Ret Aura is up. Make sure you have Kings up. If you have the Pallies to spare it, Sanctuary is a small addition to threat as well.

On the pull, you should cast Holy Wrath as the wave approaches, then some combination of face-rolling Consecrate, popping wings, and using a spell damage trinket. Ask the Warlocks to wait about 3 seconds. Continue to spam Consecration, and tab+Exorcism and Judge SoR whenever it's up. Oh, and keep Holy Shield up.

And the two things I forget once in a while: Make sure you don't have Salv, and make sure RF is up.
User avatar
Torquemada
 
Posts: 1678
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:00 am
Location: Virginia

Next

Return to Mt. Hyjal

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest
?php } else { ?