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ZA requirements (party members)

Nalorakk, Akil'zon, Jan'alai, Halazzi, Malacrass, Zul'jin

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ZA requirements (party members)

Postby strongbad216 » Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:02 am

Hello everyone. Since my guild is pretty small and made up of mostly PvP players, we are often unable/undergeared to do 10 mans. Because of this, I am gonna resort to putting together pug ZA groups. However, I need to know the minimum stats my dpsers/healers should have so I don't accidentally invite people that aren't ready for the instance. I would be aiming for two timed chests in the beginning and hopefully go from there depending on the success of these runs.

PS: My sig still says I'm holy... I'm at about 15.6k hp/16k armor in my boss tanking set.
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Postby moduspwnens » Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:19 am

I suck at telling who's geared well and who isn't. I know PvP gear isn't good, but that's about as much as I know.

http://www.warcrafter.net/

This site will give a "score" to a player's gear. So, if you're not sure about that stupid Rogue that keeps whispering you, check out his gear score. For reference, my full Karazhan-geared hunter has a gear score of 995 (with the correct trinket equipped). Since Zul'aman is designed for people Karazhan+ geared, you'll be looking for people primarily with a gear score around 995 or higher. Look out for PvP gear, though, it's weighted equally score-wise.

http://be.imba.hu/

This has been a popular site recently. It shows where most of the player's upgrades should come from (the red line on the chart), and where this character should perform well up to (blue line). It also points out if the character misenchanted or didn't enchant an item, or if he left out vital talents. For example, my hunter is shown to have most of his gear upgrades coming from ZA, but should perform well up through the end of ZA (it was designed for players in full Karazhan gear). You'll also see he has a misenchanted item (6mp5 on PvP chest), and a low-level item (Piccolo of the Flaming Fire I logged out with). His hit rating is also a bit low, but that's OK because most hunters believe the cap is between 8.5 and 9%, not necessarily 9%.
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Postby Seloei » Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:52 am

The only way to find out if that person in X full epics can cut is to try him. Theres no way you can pug and get a good run on the first try. WWS and pick out the good ones and ask them if they want to come next time again, but with a "better" group then.

Allinall, pugs are horrrrid in raids, and your better off asking friends you know to come and start a za group if possible. Bring your pvp geared dps if you wish from your guild, with proper skill even pvp gear shines in pve.
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Postby Ashmadai » Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:59 am

Honestly, you just have to group with them and see if they're any good. Gear does not make people good. I have seen Warlocks with 1200 spell damage do less than 500 DPS, rogues in full epics do 550 DPS. On the other hand, I have seen a mage in 50% blues do 900+ DPS.

Good players are good, bad players are bad, and gear does not change it.
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Postby moduspwnens » Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:23 am

Ashmadai wrote:Honestly, you just have to group with them and see if they're any good. Gear does not make people good. I have seen Warlocks with 1200 spell damage do less than 500 DPS, rogues in full epics do 550 DPS. On the other hand, I have seen a mage in 50% blues do 900+ DPS.

Good players are good, bad players are bad, and gear does not change it.


However, in respect to picking up random strangers, I believe there's a big correlation between (at least PvE) gear and skill. Is it a 100% thing? No, but generally people in better gear perform better. For pickin up PuGs, I recommend the options in my previous post.
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Postby Ashmadai » Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:06 am

Yeah I mean, you have to at least somewhat go by their gear. If you get somebody with bad gear they're likely to just have bad gear and be a bad player. I can only imagine bad things happening from a ZA pug anyway, but good luck to you!
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Re: ZA requirements (party members)

Postby superworm » Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:46 am

strongbad216 wrote:Hello everyone. Since my guild is pretty small and made up of mostly PvP players, we are often unable/undergeared to do 10 mans. Because of this, I am gonna resort to putting together pug ZA groups. However, I need to know the minimum stats my dpsers/healers should have so I don't accidentally invite people that aren't ready for the instance. I would be aiming for two timed chests in the beginning and hopefully go from there depending on the success of these runs.

PS: My sig still says I'm holy... I'm at about 15.6k hp/16k armor in my boss tanking set.


I think pvp gears are not that bad. Even in BT one of our mages in pvp gear can get to No. 3 dps. A full set of S3 and vindication gears is generally better than Kra+Badge gears imo.
To get the first 2 chests I think experience is very important, and you need 2 solid tanks. Even in T5 gears the bear hit really hurts.
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Postby Seloei » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:46 pm

full pvp gear sends warning sirens running through my head the moment i see a dps/healer in it. Without knowing the person, i assume already that he has no skill in pve and will either pull extra trash or do stupid amounts of dps.

Skill > Gear, wherever you put it. A blue shaman healing can do a LOT better job than a t6 paladin who is lazy. Same with dps who doesn't know how to dps or is doing it wrong.
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Re: ZA requirements (party members)

Postby Aerfalle » Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:27 pm

superworm wrote: in BT one of our mages in pvp gear can get to No. 3 dps. A full set of S3 and vindication gears is generally better than Kra+Badge gears imo.

No... for dps casters at least, badge gear is far superior, as are crafted epics. Unless you're talking about a few select pieces, like the weapons.
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Re: ZA requirements (party members)

Postby superworm » Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:14 am

Aerfalle wrote:No... for dps casters at least, badge gear is far superior, as are crafted epics. Unless you're talking about a few select pieces, like the weapons.


Well that may be true, I myself never get a full set of S3 anyway.
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Postby Tekkel » Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:08 am

Aye your first runs will just hurt because u can use the sites to check for gear and enchants done properly but it doesn't say much about playerskill.
Though I don't take people with green gems and missing a bunch or having cheap enchants.

After that you should have a playerbase of people who know how to play.
I'm doing that with a MH pug atm and we managed to kill up to kaz'rogal in 3 hours with 25 people that didn't knew each other :)
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Postby Mortehl » Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:11 am

Don't go to ZA without people you know very well.

This simple tip and trick will save you hundreds of gold in repair, and huge amounts of angst.
Arthas, we're coming for you. (Eventually)
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Postby towelliee » Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:01 am

Don't go to ZA without people you know very well.


I agree with this statement 100% Last night I had chance to go to a pug group full of the servers higher end horde raiders with no vent.

I decided of course to stay with my guild which comprised of

Druid - Main Tank
Tankadin(me) - OT
Mage - DPS
Shammy - DPS
Shammy - Healer
Shammy - Healer
Priest - Shadow
Paladin - Ret
Hunter - DPS
Priest - Healer

Now to the naked eye this doens't seem like much DPS. But with coordination and VENT of course we cleared the first 3 bosses in like 45 minutes or so. (Then we all left it was 3am just a quick badge loot run before bed)

But it was an awesome group. Nice heals. BloodLust everywhere, and 3 fire elementals. I was seriously laughing my arse off on Dragonhawk boss when it hit 40% and we unleashed 3 fire elementals I had hard time targeting tank for Prot heals lol.
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