AS+Sap=Mad Group

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Postby Jaydin » Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:37 am

sometimes sapping is nice, and/or you like the rogue so you want him to feel useful ^_^

have him sap the end of a 4 man line, throw your shield at the other side

if the sapped target has to be in the middle, pull by either sheep, body, or (yay blood elves) manatap the other unsapped mobs, and hurl your shield once they start coming (make sure they wont be directly adjacent to the sapped, but with casting time and lag you should be fine to throw it once they start running imo)
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Postby Everlight » Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:33 pm

Jaydin wrote:pull by either sheep, body, or (yay blood elves) manatap the other unsapped mobs


The other trick you can do is use anything that the mob may be immune / resist or such. If you're an Engineer, shoot him with a death ray or poultryizer. Chuck Ezy-Thro dynamite. Anything like that can pull too.
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Postby Tumeric » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:46 pm

Yeah i hate taking rogues that wanna CC, rather just use em for DPS bc i break the CC on purpose usually, granted this isnt on heroics yet so i might change who knows.

I find 2-4 mob pulls better to just tank all at once and AoE DPS them down, Especially when you have Mage and lock in party SoC and Bliz/blastwave/arcane explosion etc. Runs are twice as fast and i actually dont lose as much mana keeping them tanked as i do 1 by 1 as my consecration goes nearly useless on the amount of mana used, Cant wait for pieces of Righteous to help me out with 15% less mana cost on consecration.

And yes i am using lvl 1 and max rank consecration based on situation, First thing i learned as a pally ^^
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Postby TokenElf » Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:59 am

Heh.

If there's a mage, just Avenger anyway, then sheep. Your intitial aggro will actually force the mob to come after you instead of the mage. The healing the mob gets isn't enough to really care, and you are good.

As for rogues, sap, have something pull and as they close on you use Avenger's on them. Timed right it hits point blank and the sapped mob is far enough away to not care. Seen it done, looks godlike when they do it.

I'm levelling a Tankadin and currently my Shaman is resto and loves you guys.
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Postby guillex » Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:53 am

IMHO ... Sap = wasted time waiting for the rogue to stealth there and back.

Pull with AS, then sheep what you need to. If you have no mage, then pull way back, gaining aggro, turn around, and move to where the mage mob is, and go from there.

That's what I'd do. That, or no CC. *shrug*

Then again, we just ran regular SH in 45 minutes, no deaths, 2 healers (resto druid DPSing, myself healing)... So we're kind of op. :P
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Postby Chloe » Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:25 am

Candiru wrote:in heroics you really do need CC, otherwise you will be bursted down now matter how good your healer.


Fallacy. CC is not required for 90% of heroics. Especially Coilfang heroics.
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Postby honorshammer » Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:28 am

Chloe wrote:
Candiru wrote:in heroics you really do need CC, otherwise you will be bursted down now matter how good your healer.


Fallacy. CC is not required for 90% of heroics. Especially Coilfang heroics.



Depends entirely on your gear level and that of the other people in the group. I can't take two Greater Bogstroks pounding on, especially with the sunder armor thing they do.
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Postby Zonzede » Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:52 am

Candiru wrote:actually with some practise you can often avoid breaking the sapped target anyway. For example in SL in the 2nd boss room pulls:

1 2
3 4
5 6

I would mark the 4 for a sap, 5 for sheep, 3 for kill (say) then throw my shield at 6. It will then always hit 6-5-3 and not break the sap since the gap between rows is bigger than the gap between the columns.

In a 3 mob equidistant pull this is harder though, since aiming for the middle will randomly hit one of the other two. Gives you a 50:50 chance of sap working.

Or you can use Linken's boomerang, but you loose a trinket slot then so its probably not worth it.


as an addendum

1 2
3 4
5 6







7

Where 7 is a critter. No matter what target you throw your shield at, 7 will be the second target, and will not bounce back.
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Postby Chloe » Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:20 am

Honorshammer wrote:
Chloe wrote:
Candiru wrote:in heroics you really do need CC, otherwise you will be bursted down now matter how good your healer.


Fallacy. CC is not required for 90% of heroics. Especially Coilfang heroics.



Depends entirely on your gear level and that of the other people in the group. I can't take two Greater Bogstroks pounding on, especially with the sunder armor thing they do.


Looking at your armory, I have to say that I'm 100% sure that you can double tank those. If you can't, the problem is either your dps not downing them fast enough or your healer not being geared on par with you. IMO though, confidence is *everything*. If you walk into a pull thinking you're going to get wrecked, chances are you will. When I *first* started running heroics I had around 10k unbuffed hps and my healer was just shy of 1k healing and we managed to double tank mobs such as the Defenders in Heroic SP.

Back then they hit me so hard I never felt so alive...now they hit me for like 1-1.5k ):

But yeah, my point is that if you and your healbot have faith in each other, you'll pull off shit you wouldn't think you could otherwise. SO GO OUT THERE DO ITTTTTTTTT!

/cheer
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Postby Daedallus » Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:01 pm

Test your limits, if you can do the pull safely without sap, don't sap. if things are going badly, use the sap, and get someone else to pull. and then taunt/AS as things get closer. or find something else to pull with, i get more and more fond of my poultryizer every day. or... just body pull. its not quite warrior charge, but the mobs will run into your consecrate in any case, and will still be out of range so you don't wake up the sap.

keep a good eye on your healers mana, that is my gauge as to how far i can push. Also, my own mana bar, if i'm not taking enough dmg that i run oom every fight, and the healers mana barely moves, then you need to start taking more dmg, being a good tank shouldn't mean a free ride for your healer :)

and the best advice there i got off these boards..... tank without pants!.
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Postby Belarkan » Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:57 am

I found out the consecrate has sometime bad side effect since the mob can run through it and not turn back to me because the he went out of the area when the damages ticks.

Anyway, in normal run, I pull with avenger then the mages sheep.
If there is a real need for CC, then the rogue saps, I body pull / judge a seal and then mages sheep. This way, I can sometime get some aggro with holy shield before the mage sheeps. So when the sheep breaks, it is most likely the mob will run on me instead of the mage (thus saving taunt).
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