@Experienced Raid Leaders

How to get started.

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Postby honorshammer » Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:25 am

This has been very helpful to me. Thank you to everyone who responded.
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Postby Sabindeus » Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:05 am

I tend to have DPSers roll off for spots, and then if someone didn't go the previous day/week/whatever and is competing for a spot with someone who did, and they show up on a regular basis, I will take them instead. It's a real loose system but my guild doesn't exactly have that many people who log on regularly. Also we have way more DPSers than Tanks or Healers, so it almost always comes down to that.
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Postby Fridmarr » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:02 am

Joanadark wrote:Always found that incredible that someone would simply NOT BUY skills, no matter how useless.


Seal of Command above rank 2, before our 1.9 class review being the exception.
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Postby dern » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:29 am

We're in a similar situation, I'm one of 3 officers, we have around 35 "active" raiders, of course not all will show.

Priority goes to those that sign up on calendar and are on time for invite.

Once this is met and we are overfull or unbalance we have set up a rotation. In our case there is maybe 1 extra tank, 2 extra healers, and 7 dps . . .so we were just asking for dps to sit (or on Mags non interrupt/warlock dps), then went to a roll if we couldn't get volunteers.

Now we are starting a rotation system, if you're signed up, on time for raid and asked to sit then you sit. If you are availabe on a known alt or in vent you earn DKP (given that you were on time and signed up)

In theory we thought this the best policy as I would classify us as causual raiding guild . . .we will be raiding 25 mans on 3 nights a week 4 hours a night starting next week. /SHRUG We'll see how it works out. (Active status requires making 2/3 raids over time)
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Postby Daedricks » Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:32 am

When I lead Kara groups, I tell everyone to be in Darkshire ready to go at the raid time.

I'm in Darkshire, I invite who is there over people who aren't there, even if they are undergeared.

Now obviously there is some discretion on this, but I would much rather take an undergeared person who is there and ready to go over someone else who is PvPing or something.
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Postby honorshammer » Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:50 am

dern wrote: 2 extra healers,


WTB your extra healers. My realm is so low on healers. Every guild on the realm is desperate for them.
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Postby Questioner » Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:25 am

I have some interesting views on this I think. Way back in the day when I first joined, I joined my friend's friend's established raiding guild. I had a couple friends in there so we thought it would be great.

Then the measured attendance thing hit. Being as I was a mage, and we had 6 active mages, I would get left out. At one point, I was up to 88% attendance (for the last 6 weeks) and only got in to one raid. That REALLY pissed me off.

Knowing what I know today though, I can completely understand. I had GREEN pants, and probably other greens, too. I really didn't deserve a spot.

------------------------------------------------------

Now, in my new guild, I am kind of on the other end of the stick. I was in a needed position (horde pally healer) so I got in by default. Over the course of 3 months, I missed one raid (went to Vegas to meet old WoW friends :D ). You better be damn straight that the guild wants me there when I log on, and not the new unproven pally in mostly blues.

However, I do my best to get him in my spot on the farm content, so those days where I am like "Man, I'm not raiding tonight, I gotta hit up the bar!" he will be prepared to take my place without too much of a detriment to the raid. Even though I could use an item or two, they wont hold me back, and it is nothing compared to the 12 items he could use.

------------------------------------------------------

Recently we had a small issue...one of the relatively undergeared and lacking-in-attendance druids responded to the raid notice, saying that he would be there and ready to go because he had off work. He wasn't too happy when he ended up not being able to go. What he didn't seem to realize is, it would have been pretty tough to beat the boss with him there.

In the end, I agree that a completely SUBJECTIVE way to raid invites is the way to go, as long as it made known beforehand that the raid leader is inviting whoever he feels is necessary for the fight. You'll lose some people, but they aren't the ones you really want there anyway. Having raiders that understand when it is time to sit out on farm content helps as well. It is in their benefit to have "the benchwarmers" be sufficiently geared.
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Postby Mortehl » Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:11 pm

Honorshammer wrote:
dern wrote: 2 extra healers,


WTB your extra healers. My realm is so low on healers. Every guild on the realm is desperate for them.


Heh. I jumped ship from Altar of Storms over that actually (in addition to some other guild issues). We had -two- dedicated healers in the entire guild. All the others wanted to be lol feral or shadow priests.
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Postby Joanadark » Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:11 pm

The system the guild I led used:

Each Class had a Class Master, one person who was simply responsible for being on top of the other people of their class, and to a certain extent their entire role, to make sure they were squared away and working towards upgrades and knowing what their gear standard was and what their attendance was going to be and getting to know the people a little bit.

The Class Masters had the responsibility for promoting people of their class to the rank of Guardian. Guardian was the primary raider rank. The difficulty of acheiving was standardized for all classes, even if in one class we were desperate for people and in another we were over-full.

Guardian rank meant that the person was a solid dependable raider, who had gear up to the standard of our highest content, who came prepared with flasks and other consumables, and who performed well in their class role.

Meanwhile, on the guild website, the raiding schedule would include a signup section.
All that meant was that you clicked the raid/day, and it would add your main's name to the list of expected attendees, sorted by class. the amount of people of one class who could sign up was capped.
Only Guardian rank holders had the ability to sign up.


Come raid day, invites were given out according to the following priority list:

1)Guardians who had signed up
2)Guardians who had not signed up
3)non-Guardians and trials
4)Alts


Class Masters and other officers, except for the raid leader, had no higher priority for invites than any Guardian.
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Postby Mortehl » Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:24 pm

Let me offer a hybridized suggestion.

Keep in mind as you read this that I tend to be a bit ruthless when it comes to guild organization and discipline so it might seem rigid.

Set a rotation up. Say you have 4 mages and 2 slots for mages in your 25 man.

Month

Week 1 Mages on: Mage1 Mage2 Sub: Mage3 Off: Mage4
Week 2 Mages on: Mage3 Mage4 Sub: Mage1 Off: Mage2
Week 3 Mages on: Mage1 Mage4 Sub: Mage2 Off: Mage3
Week 4 Mages on: Mage2 Mage3 Sub: Mage4 Off: Mage1

Give DKP to the mage who was on as a sub as if he participated in every boss kill. Expect that every so often someone is going to miss. Thats why you have a sub. And guess what, if one of the other classes is light subs will wind up in more often then they realize because life is life and shit happens.

It is important that the person who is on sub duty understands he needs to be geared and specced and ready to go as if it was his on week, even if he doesn't go. He can play an alt or whatever but listening in on vent or guild chat and being ready to go if someone needs to drop due to power, or other assorted life emo crap. It also gives you guaranteed time during a month when you don't need to be a slave to your guild.

Remember, the 3 most important points to having a happy and healthy raid team:

1) Everyone has fun.
2) Everyone can participate.
3) Everyone can measure their contribution.

As long as you meet those 3 points, everything else will fall in place. Those who suffer from a lack of skill (Not a lack of gear) will make themselves apparent, and so will those who don't attend enough. Some times you have to make the hard decisions for your raid team. He's my friend but he's been out with no notice for the last 3 weeks yet he always finds time to PVP.. time to get moved to "Friends and Family" status.

Your raid team needs to understand that while this isn't a job, or the military, they are responsible for 24 other people that night and they owe the raid team an explanation if they can't attend. BTW: I feel like going out to drink with friends is a perfectly valid explanation every so often.

As a raid leader, you have responsibility for setting the dates and times of your raids as well. Your raid team needs to know: We raid, Sunday, Monday, Thursday, Friday from 8-12 SHARP. Invites go out at 7:45, replacements come in at 7:55 (for example). If they can't meet that then they can't raid with you. As a general rule, I suggest that you avoid taking people who can make a couple nights of your raid schedule but not others for long periods of time. That is NOT fair to the rest of your team and as a raid leader your primary responsibility is to the TEAM, and not to yourself.


I know this was long winded, but I hope it helps you out.
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Postby honorshammer » Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:25 pm

Mortehl wrote:
Honorshammer wrote:
dern wrote: 2 extra healers,


WTB your extra healers. My realm is so low on healers. Every guild on the realm is desperate for them.


Heh. I jumped ship from Altar of Storms over that actually (in addition to some other guild issues). We had -two- dedicated healers in the entire guild. All the others wanted to be lol feral or shadow priests.


You were in Mindtrip?
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Postby Mortehl » Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:28 pm

Honorshammer wrote:You were in Mindtrip?


Angelis Draconis

120 members and 2 freaking people who would heal. I ran the guild in everything but name for months. I lost my patience when the actual guildmaster started making arbitrary changes without consulting me and basically treating me like shit. I came to the realization that AoS is a backwater server and wasn't going to serve my needs.

I'm sorry if that seems harsh and I'm not trying to scare you off the server, but I feel very strongly about AoS. PS, if you ever run into Sheepandnova, kick his ass then kick him in the balls for me.
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Postby honorshammer » Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:31 pm

Mortehl wrote:
Honorshammer wrote:You were in Mindtrip?


Angelis Draconis

120 members and 2 freaking people who would heal. I ran the guild in everything but name for months. I lost my patience when the actual guildmaster started making arbitrary changes without consulting me and basically treating me like shit. I came to the realization that AoS is a backwater server and wasn't going to serve my needs.

I'm sorry if that seems harsh and I'm not trying to scare you off the server, but I feel very strongly about AoS. PS, if you ever run into Sheepandnova, kick his ass then kick him in the balls for me.


I really like the people in my guild so I don't think we are going any where anytime soon. I could literally get into any guild and name my price just by spec'ing Holy.

The most advanced guild Alliance side just killed Kael and is talking of transfering en masse.
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Postby Mortehl » Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:32 pm

Honorshammer wrote:The most advanced guild Alliance side just killed Kael and is talking of transfering en masse.


Malice? Different Strokes? One more Purple? One that didn't exist in March?
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Postby honorshammer » Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:55 pm

Mortehl wrote:
Honorshammer wrote:The most advanced guild Alliance side just killed Kael and is talking of transfering en masse.


Malice? Different Strokes? One more Purple? One that didn't exist in March?


It's DS.

OMP broke up. Azurestrike is in DS now. Not sure about the others.

Malice is still working on Vajsh although they do have VR down.

Bloodsky is in SSC, as is Dominion. Most all the other guilds are 1/2 Gruuls.
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