Gurtogg bloodboil

Naj'entus, Supremus, Akama, Gorefiend, Gurtogg Bloodboil, RoS, Sharaz, Council, Illidan

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Postby Mialina » Sat May 31, 2008 10:13 am

Nope, I meant bloodboil, I stay furthest at start to get the first BB. I'll try to make a video one day, if I ever manage to learn how to use those programs :)

Dianora wrote:
Mialina wrote:Didn't have time to read all the posts, sorry if this tactic is a re-run, but here's how I tank / off-tank BB:

First of all, you need to get the first bloodboil on you. This is crucial for the initial burst you'll make so you can regain mana fast (chain drinking mana pots works too but I'm much the type to use what the environment offers first :) ) . I'm usually the second tank so as soon as the MT grabs him I judge crusader and start stacking vengeance on him. Use consecration, pop wrath, judge 5 stack vengeances and use avenger's shield to burst him when MT has 5-6 debuffs, so I have him on me pretty quick. I usually try to keep the 5 vengeance stacks on him during his fel rage so I can keep up with the other tanks if he's not on me after the rage (but make sure to run back the last 5 secs of fel rage :) )
We also use hunters to MD our lowest tank to catch up with the other two (we use 3 tanks as our dps is pretty high), but usually thats not me :)
Ah, btw, if you have the Ashtongue trinket, it is a huge help with offtanking, that 120 holy dmg / 2 secs is pretty good, and procs a lot in my experience :)


I think you mean Acid Wound. Bloodboil hits the 5 target furthest away from him.
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Postby Echaa » Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:23 am

My guild only got 1 night of attempts so far at this guy, my threat was doing fine but I was running very low on mana standing outside of cleave range. I came up with these calculations: copy/pasted out of my guild forums. I used 1 of the posts here from the advanced training section for the mana usage and threat generated.

Possible mana/damage income:
Seal of Righteousness - 221 mana every 8 seconds = 27.6mps
Judgement - 124 mana every 9 seconds = 13.8mps
Holy Shield Rank 4 - 280 mana every 10 seconds = 28.0mps
Consecration Rank 6 - 660 mana every 8 seconds = 82.5mps
Total: 126.7mps

Therefor:
SoR: 276 dps
Judgement: 138dps
HS: 28dps
Consecrate: 825dps
Total: 1267 dps/hps - Needed to maintain 100% mana.

Possible Threat Generation:
Assuming my max avoidance/stam gear: 404 spell damage+ 80 for flask and 42 for oil gives 526 spell damage.
SoR: 22 + (2 * (WeaponSpeed*10) - 30) +
(WeaponSpeed*0.092*SpellDamage)
22 + (2 * (1.8*10) - 30) + (1.8*0.092*526) =115. 115*.90=103.5+115= 218.5 TPS
Consecrate: 64 per second + 0.96x526/8 = 127 * .90 = 114.3+127 = 241.3 TPS
JoR: 218 + 0.5x526=481*.90=433+481= 914 TPS

Total: 1373.8 TPS
-Not factoring resists on JoR or failed attacks on SoR.

Damage Income:
Miss: 11%
Dodge: 30.21%
Parry: 17.27%
Block: 20.89%
Block Value: 430
Total Avoidance: 58.48%

Average Cleave (Arching Smash) hit: 5000
I'm going to assume a 5 second cooldown on Arching smash for these calculations. This means he will Arching smash 12 times per minute.
100-58.48%=41.52%
12*0.4152 = ~5 attacks landed per min = 25,000 damage per minute. 25,000/60 = 417 DPS.
Each landed attack = 250 dps for an Acidic wound debuff.
250 * 5 = 1250 DPS. (After 1 full minute or 1 full phase 1.)
Total: 417+1250 = 1667
Total: 1667 DPS.
Because of this debuff, at 5-7 stacks I could leave cleave range and still recieve enough damage to keep my mana fairly topped off with an occasional mana pot.

I forgot to factor in Avg Shield, but besides that does most of this look correct?
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Postby Therem » Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:21 am

Our tank team for Bloodboil is a warrior, a Feral an me, warrior starts. Only the tank who has to get rid of acid wound stacks moves behind BB (or preciscely to his side so his cleave doesn't hit the meeles if BB turns toward the tank waiting to loose wound stacks). This way noone is having rage/mana problems at any time and both off-tanks can generate as much thread as possible - those in front get hit by cleave and the one standing behind him still has some acid wound stacks.
Of course that means that all tanks have at least one or two wound stacks, but our healers can deal with that.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:36 am

Echaa wrote:My guild only got 1 night of attempts so far at this guy, my threat was doing fine but I was running very low on mana standing outside of cleave range. I came up with these calculations: copy/pasted out of my guild forums. I used 1 of the posts here from the advanced training section for the mana usage and threat generated.

Possible mana/damage income:
Seal of Righteousness - 221 mana every 8 seconds = 27.6mps
Judgement - 124 mana every 9 seconds = 13.8mps
Holy Shield Rank 4 - 280 mana every 10 seconds = 28.0mps
Consecration Rank 6 - 660 mana every 8 seconds = 82.5mps
Total: 126.7mps

Therefor:
SoR: 276 dps
Judgement: 138dps
HS: 28dps
Consecrate: 825dps
Total: 1267 dps/hps - Needed to maintain 100% mana.

Possible Threat Generation:
Assuming my max avoidance/stam gear: 404 spell damage+ 80 for flask and 42 for oil gives 526 spell damage.
SoR: 22 + (2 * (WeaponSpeed*10) - 30) +
(WeaponSpeed*0.092*SpellDamage)
22 + (2 * (1.8*10) - 30) + (1.8*0.092*526) =115. 115*.90=103.5+115= 218.5 TPS
Consecrate: 64 per second + 0.96x526/8 = 127 * .90 = 114.3+127 = 241.3 TPS
JoR: 218 + 0.5x526=481*.90=433+481= 914 TPS

Total: 1373.8 TPS
-Not factoring resists on JoR or failed attacks on SoR.

Damage Income:
Miss: 11%
Dodge: 30.21%
Parry: 17.27%
Block: 20.89%
Block Value: 430
Total Avoidance: 58.48%

Average Cleave (Arching Smash) hit: 5000
I'm going to assume a 5 second cooldown on Arching smash for these calculations. This means he will Arching smash 12 times per minute.
100-58.48%=41.52%
12*0.4152 = ~5 attacks landed per min = 25,000 damage per minute. 25,000/60 = 417 DPS.
Each landed attack = 250 dps for an Acidic wound debuff.
250 * 5 = 1250 DPS. (After 1 full minute or 1 full phase 1.)
Total: 417+1250 = 1667
Total: 1667 DPS.
Because of this debuff, at 5-7 stacks I could leave cleave range and still recieve enough damage to keep my mana fairly topped off with an occasional mana pot.

I forgot to factor in Avg Shield, but besides that does most of this look correct?
Sounds correct
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Postby Saintsabbat » Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:34 am

Alas the guild I GM/RL has reached Bloodboil and have had one night of attempts on him, (sadly had 10 of our core raiders non-attending due to exams). Our best try was 35% and I'm sure when we haven't got alt healers etc it will be a kill, I do however have some questions.

What gear are people using? Obviously having a decent amount of spell damage is important but some people are saying go for Max HP, others for avoidance.

I made a true avoidance gear set yesterday and raid buffed/debuffed it would give 70% true avoidance, uncrush, uncrit, 550ish spell dam, 19k armour, 19k HP, with trinkets popped would hit 80% true avoidance.

My question is does this seem like too much avoidance/too little spell damage?

Principle behind the high avoidance being to get a s few debuffs as possible whilst the MT and to be able to survive a fel rage when a mage gets killed early.

More then likely our failure was just down to inappropriate raid group/healer alts (we had 9 healers)/core members absence. However I would value people's opinions on how I can best prepare for the encounter. Thanks x
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Postby Snake-Aes » Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:45 am

Saintsabbat wrote:Alas the guild I GM/RL has reached Bloodboil and have had one night of attempts on him, (sadly had 10 of our core raiders non-attending due to exams). Our best try was 35% and I'm sure when we haven't got alt healers etc it will be a kill, I do however have some questions.

What gear are people using? Obviously having a decent amount of spell damage is important but some people are saying go for Max HP, others for avoidance.

I made a true avoidance gear set yesterday and raid buffed/debuffed it would give 70% true avoidance, uncrush, uncrit, 550ish spell dam, 19k armour, 19k HP, with trinkets popped would hit 80% true avoidance.

My question is does this seem like too much avoidance/too little spell damage?

Principle behind the high avoidance being to get a s few debuffs as possible whilst the MT and to be able to survive a fel rage when a mage gets killed early.

More then likely our failure was just down to inappropriate raid group/healer alts (we had 9 healers)/core members absence. However I would value people's opinions on how I can best prepare for the encounter. Thanks x
Gearing for Bloodboil... just use your default boss-that-hits-hard gear setup. if your healers are good, you may or may not want to use a spell damage trinket/libram. But that is more a touch about managing threat. I don't even bother slowing down on threat till I have 4 or so stacks of acidic wound, otherwise i'll just be oom when someone else takes over.
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Postby Worldie » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:33 am

Bloodboil gearing is about good compromise between avoidance and threat.

Don't exceed on threat, else other tanks will not menage to get him from you.
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Postby Jonlo » Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:12 am

I actually managed to tank BB from 100%-10% excluding Fel Enrages the other day.

I got lucky with dodging Acidic Wounds and Bewilderments.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:46 am

Jonlo wrote:I actually managed to tank BB from 100%-10% excluding Fel Enrages the other day.

I got lucky with dodging Acidic Wounds and Bewilderments.
don't coutn on it =D
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Postby Worldie » Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:59 am

That's actually not being lucky with wounds, it's being lucky with knockbacks.

1 stun/knockback and your DPS would have been toasted
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Jonlo » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:49 am

We HAD 3 tanks. And all the DPS was below the other 2 tanks. 1 Knockback and it would have transferred to the warrior next in line. Normally if I get stacks of Wounds I stop attacking to balance my TPS to let them catch up. Because going into the 2nd Fel Enrage I only had 6 wounds on me, I had a huge threat lead that just kept going. Once I got 13, I bubbled them off during Fel Enrage (Had a full timer that time) I took some knockbacks but not enough to worry about losing aggro. At about 10% It finally switched to a warrior.
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Postby cigar3tte » Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:41 pm

When on OT duty, does a tankadin just rotate Consecrate, Judge Righteous, and Seal Righteous?

I'm not if I'm just new, Wed night was my first time doing Gurtogg with my new guild on a paladin (I've successfully done the kill many times on a warrior), and once I'm not the target of Gurtogg, I was unable to keep up threat. Spell damage is about 500 buffed.

Also, I guess something I've already missed, Arcing Smash only REFRESHES Acid Wounds, but doesn't APPLY it?
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Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:44 pm

Can't tell myself, but i've had 2 or 3 stacks of acidic wound without grabbing any aggro, cigar. ANd there's no "OT" in this fight. There's three tanks.
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Postby Worldie » Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:47 pm

Arcign Smash applies the dot, doesn't just refresh it.

And again yes, there's no offtank in this fight.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby cigar3tte » Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:49 pm

I just used the term to say that I'm not the one tanking at the time. I understand the three tanks have exact the same role. Sorry for the confusion.

If Arcing Smash does apply the dot, why are we asked to stay in front when not targeted by Gurtogg.
Last edited by cigar3tte on Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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