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Tanking Al'ar, ideal setup?

A'lar, Void Reaver, Solarian, Kael'thas

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Tanking Al'ar, ideal setup?

Postby Ashmadai » Wed May 21, 2008 6:01 am

So the setup my guild has been using has been 2 warriors and then me tanking Al'ar in phase 1. Another pally tank tanks the adds during phase 1.

During phase 2, we've been having me and the other pally tank rotate picking up the 2 adds each every time a meteor comes down. However, we both are having trouble going mana starved, and I am starting to think just me tanking the adds might be better all around.

If I'm going to be the only one tanking the adds, should a hunter pick up the adds after meteor and bring them to me? That's what I was thinking, but I'd like to hear any good ideas.

Thanks.
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Re: Tanking Al'ar, ideal setup?

Postby Morpheren » Wed May 21, 2008 6:08 am

Ashmadai wrote:So the setup my guild has been using has been 2 warriors and then me tanking Al'ar in phase 1. Another pally tank tanks the adds during phase 1.

During phase 2, we've been having me and the other pally tank rotate picking up the 2 adds each every time a meteor comes down. However, we both are having trouble going mana starved, and I am starting to think just me tanking the adds might be better all around.

If I'm going to be the only one tanking the adds, should a hunter pick up the adds after meteor and bring them to me? That's what I was thinking, but I'd like to hear any good ideas.

Thanks.


One pally on the adds is usually the best set up, and getting a designated person to pick them up can be nice (with our taunt mechanics) especially if you use the method of "round up 10-15 adds and aoe them down, sacrificing your paladin" as 15 adds would take off what? 45% of his health?
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Postby Ashmadai » Wed May 21, 2008 7:05 am

So I don't really remember how hard these guys hit, but if I'm at 55% avoidance with 20k hp raid buffed will I be able to tank 15 of them for the AoE with 2 pally healers only on me?

Only the explosion is fire damage right? So resist isn't necessary?
Last edited by Ashmadai on Wed May 21, 2008 7:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Seloei » Wed May 21, 2008 7:07 am

Best situation is that you are solo on the adds in p2. You can see where the meteor lands, then spam tab (if your near) and throw a shield at them. Or just taunt the person they are going for (both go for the same healer) and you have them. Either wear full fire res gear to resist the booms or normal gear and only kill one add at a time at start of p2
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Postby Morpheren » Wed May 21, 2008 8:24 am

Seloei wrote:Best situation is that you are solo on the adds in p2. You can see where the meteor lands, then spam tab (if your near) and throw a shield at them. Or just taunt the person they are going for (both go for the same healer) and you have them. Either wear full fire res gear to resist the booms or normal gear and only kill one add at a time at start of p2


I've never tried the big boom scenario, usually we kill one by one, but i've seen strats of taking 10+ and aoeing them down (killing the paladin and Al'ar)
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Postby Ashmadai » Wed May 21, 2008 8:53 am

Given my above stats I listed, would it be smart to try to pick up 12 to 15 of these guys? How hard does their melee hit? And is their melee mitigated by armor or fire resist, I can never remember?
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Postby Morpheren » Wed May 21, 2008 8:59 am

Ashmadai wrote:Given my above stats I listed, would it be smart to try to pick up 12 to 15 of these guys? How hard does their melee hit? And is their melee mitigated by armor or fire resist, I can never remember?


I dont think FR works here, but then again, I never tanked adds, was always on the boss, as we ran with 2 prot paladins.
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Postby Coristad » Wed May 21, 2008 1:02 pm

Morpheren wrote:
Ashmadai wrote:Given my above stats I listed, would it be smart to try to pick up 12 to 15 of these guys? How hard does their melee hit? And is their melee mitigated by armor or fire resist, I can never remember?


I dont think FR works here, but then again, I never tanked adds, was always on the boss, as we ran with 2 prot paladins.


My guild is working on Al'ar now, and only the boom is fire damage, the rest is physical. Adds me for around 800 or so. I have to be careful and watch my mana because they don't really hit hard enough for me to get mana back, even after an explosion.

Aside from moments of noobness, our guild's problem is definitely in phase 2. We keep losing people randomly. I'm the RL and I emphasize to people the importance of Not Standing In Things, and giving them assigned areas to stand in. I think we might be healer light... we tend to run 6-7 healers, and most strats seem to call for 8. If you're going to try to hold more adds, it might make sense to make sure you have more healers as you are going to need more dedicated healing towards the end. Just my 2 cents worth.
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Postby Morpheren » Wed May 21, 2008 1:33 pm

Coristad wrote:
Morpheren wrote:
Ashmadai wrote:Given my above stats I listed, would it be smart to try to pick up 12 to 15 of these guys? How hard does their melee hit? And is their melee mitigated by armor or fire resist, I can never remember?


I dont think FR works here, but then again, I never tanked adds, was always on the boss, as we ran with 2 prot paladins.


My guild is working on Al'ar now, and only the boom is fire damage, the rest is physical. Adds me for around 800 or so. I have to be careful and watch my mana because they don't really hit hard enough for me to get mana back, even after an explosion.

Aside from moments of noobness, our guild's problem is definitely in phase 2. We keep losing people randomly. I'm the RL and I emphasize to people the importance of Not Standing In Things, and giving them assigned areas to stand in. I think we might be healer light... we tend to run 6-7 healers, and most strats seem to call for 8. If you're going to try to hold more adds, it might make sense to make sure you have more healers as you are going to need more dedicated healing towards the end. Just my 2 cents worth.


The hardest part of high-end raiding is not standing in fire and other highly deadly stationary areas.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Wed May 21, 2008 1:39 pm

I still remember the fire dance on that necromancer guy in naxx >.>
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Postby Catriona » Wed May 21, 2008 2:44 pm

The hardest part of high-end raiding is not standing in fire and other highly deadly stationary areas.

Mmm, Illidari Council.

When people say raiding is hard I just wonder how hard it is for people NOT to stand in fire/blizzard/consecrate/etc and cry for the state of the human race.
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Postby Seloei » Wed May 21, 2008 3:33 pm

Just like someone said, 9/10 raid encounters in TBC boil down to one sentance "Do not stand in the fucking fire".

As for the adds, we save em for p2 and pop em one by one and i get more and more of em on me while they spawn. They hit so weak that it doesn't matter if theres 10 of em or so (think heroic shat halls mob packs, but with more than one healer).

P1 : one runs down, frisbee/judge/nuke it to 50% (usually a bit of help from the melees when they need to jump from dives) and get ready for next one. Start of P2, ranged burn the adds, hunters (if i can't reach them) MD the new 2 adds to me and burn all of the small ones. Melee dps on A'lar, ranged dps single nuking the birdies (dedicated pala healer spamming holy lights on me usually). With capped fire res, i only get hit by 1/10 of booms, but really... just use your normal tank gear on em, since if you have less than 4 banging on you, you will dip low on mana.
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Postby Coristad » Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:07 pm

I just finished doing an extra long writeup for my guild, and I thought I'd share the results in the hope that it helps.

Assumptions:
1. New pair of adds every 30 seconds
2. Melee DPS on adds P1, ranged DPS on adds P2.
3. Adds have 75,000 health.

As it turns out, 3% of Al'ar's base health of 2,500,000 is conveniently 75000. What this means is that if your ranged raid DPS <= 7500, they do more damage to Al'ar if they can kill the adds relatively quickly. Therefore, if your DPS can take down an add every 10 seconds or so, that gives you 10 seconds to pick up the next set. For me, that means using all of my ranged DPS. Your raid may be different. You can take a little longer if you use 2 tanks. A decently geared paladin should be able to survive 2 explosions with Fire Resist aura and decent healing as it's about 15K.

Another thing I discovered is that, at least with my raid's level of DPS, is that there is no real advantage to carrying over 1-3 adds from phase 1. At best, you shave 10-20 seconds off the entire length of the fight, but if you're killing adds as you go you're not going to hit the enrage timer by a long stretch (10 minutes = 600 seconds, requiring < 4167 Raid DPS to hit enrage).

Since we are learning the fight, I am trying to eliminate as much of the complexity and risk as possible. If the add tank dies with adds up, we wipe. If I can perfect that part of the process, I can go back to yelling at people to not stand in the fire. :D

As always, YMMV. I have charts and tables and such if anyone is curious, but I don't want to bomb the thread.
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Re: Tanking Al'ar, ideal setup?

Postby superworm » Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:39 am

Ashmadai wrote:So the setup my guild has been using has been 2 warriors and then me tanking Al'ar in phase 1. Another pally tank tanks the adds during phase 1.

During phase 2, we've been having me and the other pally tank rotate picking up the 2 adds each every time a meteor comes down. However, we both are having trouble going mana starved, and I am starting to think just me tanking the adds might be better all around.

If I'm going to be the only one tanking the adds, should a hunter pick up the adds after meteor and bring them to me? That's what I was thinking, but I'd like to hear any good ideas.

Thanks.


Usually I tank the boss at P1 and the adds at P2. The warrior/druid with melt armor will help me grabbing the adds. Use mana potions once cd is over.

The tip is not to let the adds die near other raid members.

I heard some guild would let rouges to tank the adds in P2, and they can shadow cloak when the add is dying.
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