Remove Advertisements

Tank Taking Blame

Attumen, Moroes, Maiden, Opera, Curator, Illhoof, Aran, Netherspite, Chess, Prince, Nightbane

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Postby agamemnoch » Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:43 am

Stil,

I was appalled by the lack of DPS/rotation knowledge on some of these people. I was shouting on vent "45 seconds to evocation, curse of doom, curse of doom" and nothing. The hunter had no pet out, don't know if that was for the flares, etc, perhaps. I was hoping for an ice lance out of the frost mage, something, but it did not appear and I popped wings 2x for that fight
Image
Armory Link Above
agamemnoch
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 1:48 pm

Postby Kelaan » Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:15 pm

Sounds like either your group was too panicked about flares (read: low DPS), or the warlock sucked. Good idea to call out evocation timers, though -- did you explain beforehand that at that point you'd like the warlocks to drop a CoD on the boss, and *why*? If the group was failing hard at flare handling, it is very easy not to get much dps on the boss. (As others have said, Curator is a gear check for your *DPS* -- can they kill flares fast enough to allow DPS time on Curator.)

The hunter may have been retarded not to leave the pet on Curator the *ENTIRE* time, but at the same time eating initial flares is bad for pet health, and he might've tired of losing it a minute into every fight. (Chain heals and mend pet, both help here.)

Sounds like your hunter was a nimrod, though, given that he flame wreathed you several times. Sorry to hear you got a bad egg. :)
User avatar
Kelaan
 
Posts: 4037
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:01 pm

Postby Aerfalle » Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:34 pm

Agamemnoch wrote:That's also why I have not bothered to

It sounds logical at first, but what you're actually doing making a choice to use inferior gear, or inferior gems and enchants.

There's some tank out there willing to get the best gear they can. Why don't you want it to be you?

It's not like gold is hard to get anymore. No one's saying put epic gems in your Timewarden's, heh.
Image
Image
User avatar
Aerfalle
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:09 pm

Postby agamemnoch » Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:35 pm

Oh, I work hard to get good gear, but when the differences are slim, I don't always go for that last piece. I know I need 12 stam on bracers, but I can't find anybody who wont gauge me on price for mats/enchant, etc. My next legs are maybe 2 weeks away and I am ok with that.
Image
Armory Link Above
agamemnoch
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 1:48 pm

Postby Seloei » Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:57 am

It's not just the timewarden legs, its the head enchant. That is priceless for tanking. More pure avoidance means less damage intake and less hassle with uncrushable. At kara level (start/mid) you can keep uncrushable easy enough but later, you will have big problems with the SSO enchant.
Run a few caverns instances, get the rep, it's not much and you know a few healers will kill for the trinket from BM, or the melee dps for the other trinket from BM. It's just a run a day for maybe max a week and you have revered.
Image
Seloei
 
Posts: 1130
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Estonia

Postby agamemnoch » Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:32 am

I plan to run them when my guildies want to, but its too much of a pain to pug it. Its on the list, but not high priority. I know I am close to getting it and that I can blast through OHB with a half decent healer.
Image
Armory Link Above
agamemnoch
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 1:48 pm

Postby Talmus » Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:08 am

I don't know how your time is but if it's anything like mine I completely understand where you're coming from. Between helping out guildies, running raids, trying to work on trade skills, and real life it's hard to get the time to do AN instance, let alone do the same ones repeatedly. If you have limited play time and lots to get done in that time then sometimes you have to prioritize. Leaving a sub-standard piece of gear in place for a couple of weeks knowing that you're upgrading it to a great piece of gear in the immediate future seems like a good bit of planning. Ideally we'd all get every single available upgrade but we don't all have the time to do that...that's when it becomes critical to set priorities.

That said, I'm not going to turn down ANY chance to run instances for KoT rep...it's just a matter of finding the time to fit it in and getting by in the meantime.
Talmus
 
Posts: 134
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:35 pm

Postby agamemnoch » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:50 am

My thought is, if I can run OHB in 35 min (not counting getting people to go, getting there, waiting for "just a minute") it turns into an hour I could have used to go to H SP or H UB with 2 good healers and 2 good DPS and come out with 3 or 4 badges, more if it was the daily. Do both and come out with 9 badges in 2.5hrs. Go to kara up till curator? Thats about 8+ badges. A few days like that and I will have my pants. I have the mats already there for my nethercleft leg armor, too.

I just see the difference in the KoT legs as minimal for the effort it will take to get them RIGHT NOW when I am maybe 20 days from the 2.4 legs.
Image
Armory Link Above
agamemnoch
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 1:48 pm

Postby Kelaan » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:19 am

Forget the pants, you really want the helm enchant. Unlocking the helm enchant is something that can will last the rest of your tanking career. It upgrades EVERY tanking helm you will see.

Old Hillsbrad, non-heroic, is so easy that you can AOE tank it at 68-69 with few problems; at 70, I'd almost advise pulling two groups at once, if your healer can handle it. ANY pug healer should be able to heal you effectively through it. Between sitting down, or starting a spellcast in order to get hit, you should be able to control the incoming damage very well. Just bring a few stacks of conjured biscuits and you should be fine.

I realize that it's a pain, but what OTHER upgrades are you working on, and what makes them ugprades?

- farming badges for stam/avoidance upgrades.
- farming honor for effective health
- farming shattered halls for that [censored] Figurine

When you look at the OTHER relatively tedious grinds, in order to get the helm enchant, consider this:

The helm enchant gives 1.98% uncrushbility, via defense and dodge -- this is similar to:

Felsteel helm -> Tankatronics (1.5%),

Mantle of Abrahmis -> T4 shoulders (1.61%),
Righteous shoulders -> T4 shoulders (1.82%)
T4 -> Stone Resolve (1.73%),

Vambraces of Courage -> Ancient Phalanx (0.55%),
Felsteel gloves -> Maidin's gloves (1.55%),

T4 legs -> Inscribed Aldor legs (0.55%),
Wrynn Dynasty legs -> Inscribed Aldor legs (0.6%)

It's more than enchanting your chest with defense or your cloak with dodge.

(These are taken from the Uncrushability sticky; Pure Avoidance is, in many cases, in the glyph's favor, since it has no block rating, and mixes dodge with defense rather than being pure defense.)


How good of an upgade are these? ALL are very good upgrades. I hope it's clear how much of an upgrade adding that helm enchant is -- not only does it let you gem/enchant for stamina elsewhere, if you've enchanted/gemmed some avoidance/defense. 1% avoidance (or more, IIRC) is a substantial upgrade -- 18 stamina isn't really an efficient alternative.

You're currently spending time tryingto get these OTHER upgrades, almost NONE of which are all that close to the avoidance and uncrushability you'd get if you worked to get the glyph. The glyph is the real reward, NOT the timewarden's.


edit: You say you are 20 days from the leg upgrade. Awesome!

Consider that once you DO get a good KoT group, you can travel there (20 mins?), and then do SEVERAL IN SUCCESSION. Lowbies will be happy to do it, and if not you can go do Black Morass as well. There are almost always people trying to do those -- and chances are one of them may be there to summon already. Traveling to Karazhan or Tempest Keep is only about 10-15 minutes less time.

You could upgrade your helm (and all future ones) in a single weekend of play, if you ran Old Hillsbrad about 4-6 times and then did Black Morass a couple too. Hell, your gear is such that you can probably do HEROIC Caverns of Time, which is even more rep.
User avatar
Kelaan
 
Posts: 4037
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:01 pm

Postby agamemnoch » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:29 am

Except I am already uncrushable at the moment and will continue to be so into the near future. I feel that the pants are major and I have the SH trinket already. I do plan on getting the KoT enchant, as I will need it to go over uncrush with the T4 helm, if I ever get it.....

Plus, the 18 more stamina I get from the helm glyph I have now benefits me more when I don't dodge, parry or get missed. Plus, the resilience helps me with DoTs (albeit marginally at those low levels) and a bit in flexibility in defense combinations.

The legs will give me more armor, more stamina, more health and more spell damage. There is next to nothing that the KoT head glyph will give me RIGHT NOW that matters more than those things in one combined item.

After that, I plan on getting the 2.3 chest, slapping defense on that, and seeing about getting the helm from prince. Next badge upgrade for me will likely be the bracers or cloak, as I am still hoping for the chess boots.

Btw, OHB non-heroic is such a joke with my current gear that if I have 2 ranged classes I can pull all the guys in the building where they keep thrall, pop my trinkets and have 2 healers stand back and laugh.
Image
Armory Link Above
agamemnoch
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 1:48 pm

Postby guillex » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:35 am

Agamemnoch wrote:Except I am already uncrushable at the moment and will continue to be so into the near future. I feel that the pants are major and I have the SH trinket already. I do plan on getting the KoT enchant, as I will need it to go over uncrush with the T4 helm, if I ever get it.....

Plus, the 18 more stamina I get from the helm glyph I have now benefits me more when I don't dodge, parry or get missed. Plus, the resilience helps me with DoTs (albeit marginally at those low levels) and a bit in flexibility in defense combinations.

The legs will give me more armor, more stamina, more health and more spell damage. There is next to nothing that the KoT head glyph will give me RIGHT NOW that matters more than those things in one combined item.

After that, I plan on getting the 2.3 chest, slapping defense on that, and seeing about getting the helm from prince. Next badge upgrade for me will likely be the bracers or cloak, as I am still hoping for the chess boots.

Btw, OHB non-heroic is such a joke with my current gear that if I have 2 ranged classes I can pull all the guys in the building where they keep thrall, pop my trinkets and have 2 healers stand back and laugh.


Dude... Just grind out the rep on your offtime ... It'll take you less time to do, you'll breeze through the instances, and then you're set.

It's something that you'll always go back for ... so the sooner you get it, the better.

Plus, you don't have to shrug aside getting badges for the legs, either. If you have 20-30 minutes to do a normal CoT instance, you can stick that in between your heroic runs.
Póg mo thóin
Image
User avatar
guillex
Moderator
 
Posts: 7490
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:32 pm
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada

Postby agamemnoch » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:42 am

I will run them, just can't right now because I am normally limited to about 2hrs or so of play. That usually involves a few dailies and a heroic. If a heroic CoT comes up, I'll give her a shot, though. That could kill me a few birds with the same stone :)
Image
Armory Link Above
agamemnoch
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 1:48 pm

Postby Lookit » Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:42 pm

Rename thread "Tank taking blame for honored with KoT" imo.
Image
User avatar
Lookit
 
Posts: 255
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:17 am

Postby Kelaan » Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:07 pm

Agamemnoch wrote:Except I am already uncrushable at the moment and will continue to be so into the near future. I feel that the pants are major and I have the SH trinket already.


My point was, we all have SOMETHING we are working on. For me, it's the trinket, and collecting badges. Yes, you're uncrushable. That's why I was saying look at the AVOIDANCE. Also, an uncrushability upgrade in one place lets you use effective health enchants and gems (or gear) where you might have had some block rating or extra defense. It's all about what you can swap around for more stamina/armor/Avoidance.

In terms of what upgrades you can GET, and what the time investment is needed to GET them, the glyph is a very lucrative one. Remember that you get ~8k rep for the series of Black Morass quests, so once you do that you only have a couple runs of either left.

Plus, the 18 more stamina I get from the helm glyph I have now benefits me more when I don't dodge, parry or get missed.

So, only half the time. (: You already likely have plenty of effective health for your level of content, and once you get there improving Avoidance can be very good. Heck, avoidance helps make some of the heroics easier to tank, also, as it's a relatively constant level of damage prevention when you are taking hits from several targets at once.

The legs will give me more armor, more stamina, more health and more spell damage. There is next to nothing that the KoT head glyph will give me RIGHT NOW that matters more than those things in one combined item.


Having just bought the 2.4 legs, I know where you're coming from. But, look at it this way: In 3-4 days, you can get the KoT helm enchant. Getting the legs was something you estimated ~20 days for. Stay logged out in Tanaris, it has an inn, a mailbox, and a bank, that saves you a bunch of travel time. I'm just looking at the time/reward ratio.


OHB non-heroic is such a joke with my current gear that if I have 2 ranged classes I can pull all the guys in the building where they keep thrall, pop my trinkets and have 2 healers stand back and laugh.


This is why it should be almsot trivial to run this place like a steamroller. Get a warlock and a mage, and maybe a warrior for whirlwind fun, who cares.

Agamemnoch wrote:I will run them, just can't right now because I am normally limited to about 2hrs or so of play. That usually involves a few dailies and a heroic.


What are your hopes at gains from dailies plus a heroic, though? Money, and badges. Badges have value as a partial investment in Some Upgrade (for you, Legs). Money -- well, you can do more dailies another time, is that 200g really such a big deal? Having a tank upgrade on every helm you will ever again get (before Wrath) is significant also.

I respect that you feel spending 20 days (or even a couple weeks) or so working on getting the 2.4 legs is a better time investment than trying to get the helm enchant. I've spent time on grinds like that for SSO exalted, and to buy my 2.4 legs, also. It's your $15/month, not mine -- but that doesn't mean that I don't think you're making a poor choice by not getting the low hanging fruit first. I apologize if I've pushed this too far, but I really do (and others, it seems) feel the helm enchant is a better, easier upgrade to get before all others.

Happy tanking, no matter which path you choose. =)
User avatar
Kelaan
 
Posts: 4037
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:01 pm

Postby ldeboer » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:26 pm

Agamemnoch wrote:I wasn't specifically talking about Aran, just using it as a point. I was just questioning my sanity. I have been in fights where we downed Aran in little time with no problems.

My original questions stand.

Sanity check for kara on me and my gear
How to find good DPS that are outside of my guild to go on runs when I can't make the guild run
Questioning the viability of going 4th healer (especially when the OT does less dmg than I do, essentially making it a 5 DPS fight)


The Shade fight was just an illustration of my frustrations in having DPS that could not get him down. He never got below say 20% or such, but I have been on runs where we one shotted just about everything.


Aran and Curator are dps checks IMO stacking more healers is not going to work. Curator will enrage and on Aran he just keeps dishing out damage and eventually your healers will go OOM anyhow.

Simple run SW Stats or Recount any dps that cant produce 500 DPS is a liability for upper Kara and needs to go back and gear up. Remember to do Prince and Gruul you gonna need most up around 650+ from memory you will find the top ones should be 850+.

To be honest I would rather drop a healer than drop a DPS.
Choice between 2 good healers + 1 bad healer versus 2 good healers + 1 DPS I would take the latter any day.

I would also point out that Aran fight in particular the clothies can do alot to mitigate damage I remember as a mage I had spellfire set and I think I had like 5.5kHP with it on. For the Aran fight he will often target you twice and you can expect 6-7K damage so I would put on soulcloth gear or PVP gear, sure my spell damage was down but I could take 2 hits because I had increased HP and arcane resistance.

The key to aran is not moving in flame wreath and keeping the clothie DPS alive. I know from coming from a mage to a tank I can do stuff I could never do on my mage like walk thru blizzard and live to tell. There is not much room for error as clothie DPS and to be honest Aran is probably the first fight they have done in raid where there isnt a meat shield between them and the damage so dont get frustrated with them until you have walked in their shoes.
Image
Image
Image
ldeboer
 
Posts: 553
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:13 pm
Location: Perth Australia

PreviousNext

Return to Karazhan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there are 0 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 0 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests
?php } else { ?