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Bloodboil can be hit by exorcism? and BT help.

Naj'entus, Supremus, Akama, Gorefiend, Gurtogg Bloodboil, RoS, Sharaz, Council, Illidan

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Bloodboil can be hit by exorcism? and BT help.

Postby Diabolist » Tue May 27, 2008 8:49 am

Gurtogg Bloodboil
MT/TC: Advantaged
A tankadins ability to control burst threat via exorcism and judgments allows micro-management of threat, enabling him to either overtake the top aggro spot, or drop down to secondary aggro. Burst threat combined with the ability to bubble out of a high stack of Acidic Wounds allows the tankadin to tank Bloodboil for longer when not disoriented, allowing other tanks more time to build aggro without a knockback. The paladin also provides an additional BoP in case a tank has too much aggro.


http://www.failsafedesign.com/maintanka ... php?t=3619

Bloodboil is a humanoid. How can he be hit with exorsicm?

I came here because my guild is stuck on "paladins cant end game tank". Last night we went to Bloodboil. When I brought up that I should initially tank, get huge threat lead, take a ton of Acidic Wounds, BOP myself continue to take Acidic Wounds till the first Fel Rage, this was frowned upon because "BOP drops my threat to zero and it would be too hard for me to get threat back up". Rather than get into it on vent as it was getting late I came here to do some more reading on what to do. It seems I had a decent idea. I think the main problem is our DPS does too much damage in phase 1 instead of saving it for phase 2 and its a constant struggle for the tanks. Basically after the first attempt of having me initially tank and using the terrible strategy they came up with failed, we did more attempt without me even in the picture because the fight "requires 2 warriors and a druid tank".

For anyone who has had this problem... what can I do to show whats going on here. I dont mind talking strategy but having to convince and argue is a waste of time. Or... time to look for a new guild? Thanks.
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Re: Bloodboil can be hit by exorcism? and BT help.

Postby Dragonzbane » Tue May 27, 2008 9:14 am

Diabolist wrote: Or... time to look for a new guild? Thanks.


This may eventually be the answer you're looking for.

But you should first take strides to educate the people in your guild.


My question to you is:
How can you guild actually say "paladins cant end game tank"?

Are they all really that stupid?
Do they know that the World 2nd Kil Jaeden defeat had a Prot Paladin?

Post some Paladin tanking Vids from BB all the up to Sunwell bosses.

If that doesn't make them admit the Paladins can tank then leave.
Last edited by Dragonzbane on Tue May 27, 2008 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby fuzzygeek » Tue May 27, 2008 9:17 am

The aggro drop is active for as long as the bubble is up. As soon as the bubble is cancelled, your threat will return to its previous level.

When I have over 15 stacks and the warrior or bear is still lagging, I'll bubble off the debuff with my feardance macro, and Gurtogg will still stick on me.

I'm the lead tank on our Bloodboil, and it works out rather well for us.
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Re: Bloodboil can be hit by exorcism? and BT help.

Postby Dragonzbane » Tue May 27, 2008 9:25 am

Diabolist wrote: When I brought up that I should initially tank, get huge threat lead, take a ton of Acidic Wounds, BOP myself continue to take Acidic Wounds till the first Fel Rage, this was frowned upon because "BOP drops my threat to zero and it would be too hard for me to get threat back up".


First of all, you don't BoP yourself, you DS all the debuffs.

Second, BoP just basically removes the recipient as a valid melee target.

Third, BoP doesn't remove the debuffs as far as I can remember.

You actually use BoP on the other tanks if necessery to force target switches.

As fuzzy said these are temporary effects on agro.

Another good way to reduce agro is for the highest tank to move out of melee range for phase 2 in order to reduce agro gen to assist in tank switches.


Obvious points:
Always MD the lowest agro tank.
Once the highest agro tank has a good lead they shut down their threat to help the OTs take the lead.

The easiest way to kill this guy when first starting is to have the DPS wait until the first Phase 2 to actually attack. This will assure that the tanks will have a decent threat lead. Afterall, most of the DPS is done in Phase 2 anyway.


Diabolist wrote:"requires 2 warriors and a druid tank".


Complete and utter BS btw.
RoS phase 2 is the only fight that requires a warrior.


No offense toward you intended but:
What backwater, third world country do your raid leaders come from?
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Postby Diabolist » Tue May 27, 2008 10:29 am

well i went off of wowhead...

http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=22948

Acidic Wound: Applies a 60-stackable debuff to the main tank every 2 seconds. Reduces the armor of the tank by 500 and ticks for 300 damage every 3 seconds for one application. Cannot be removed except for Blessing of Protection.


Probably wrong? but maybe both DS and BOP work? I really think its a waste of time to have to prove that a character with a protection tree can tank end game. I think its just a couple of guys who are stuck in the standard of warriors are tanks. We dont have any DPS warriors now that I think about it, lol. I will probably just start looking in another direction since my guilds is stuck.
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Postby Lore » Tue May 27, 2008 10:31 am

Those who continue to claim that Paladins can't (or don't) tank have not put any research into their claims.

Regarding Exorcism, you cannot use it on Bloodboil.

Regarding Acidic Wound, DS removes it, BoP does not.
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Postby Diabolist » Tue May 27, 2008 10:37 am

Misinformation all around! :?

ok thanks for the clear up.
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Re: Bloodboil can be hit by exorcism? and BT help.

Postby Snake-Aes » Tue May 27, 2008 12:52 pm

Diabolist wrote:
Gurtogg Bloodboil
MT/TC: Advantaged
A tankadins ability to control burst threat via exorcism and judgments allows micro-management of threat, enabling him to either overtake the top aggro spot, or drop down to secondary aggro. Burst threat combined with the ability to bubble out of a high stack of Acidic Wounds allows the tankadin to tank Bloodboil for longer when not disoriented, allowing other tanks more time to build aggro without a knockback. The paladin also provides an additional BoP in case a tank has too much aggro.


http://www.failsafedesign.com/maintanka ... php?t=3619

Bloodboil is a humanoid. How can he be hit with exorsicm?

I came here because my guild is stuck on "paladins cant end game tank". Last night we went to Bloodboil. When I brought up that I should initially tank, get huge threat lead, take a ton of Acidic Wounds, BOP myself continue to take Acidic Wounds till the first Fel Rage, this was frowned upon because "BOP drops my threat to zero and it would be too hard for me to get threat back up". Rather than get into it on vent as it was getting late I came here to do some more reading on what to do. It seems I had a decent idea. I think the main problem is our DPS does too much damage in phase 1 instead of saving it for phase 2 and its a constant struggle for the tanks. Basically after the first attempt of having me initially tank and using the terrible strategy they came up with failed, we did more attempt without me even in the picture because the fight "requires 2 warriors and a druid tank".

For anyone who has had this problem... what can I do to show whats going on here. I dont mind talking strategy but having to convince and argue is a waste of time. Or... time to look for a new guild? Thanks.

Ask them WHY "you can't tank in endgame", and reply to every one of these. Yes they all have a valid retort. And yes you'll probably leave that guild unless the leader is very open to suggestions and listen to you.

1: immune != threat drop. You still have all your threat and he goes right back to you if you're still on top.
2: Warriors have pretty much the same disadvantage on threat that paladins do. The loss isn't as big for them but they starve for rage just like you starve for mana(druids are op for not-tanking threat)


i've done the fight myself against full t6 geared tanks(2 warriors) and dps, it's easy and I could not only snatch aggro from the warrior, but also hold it through a lot of stacks(like 14), bubble, and grab him back for another 10 stacks as soon as bubble was off. Note that I was using a threat and a stamina trinket. Exorcism doesn't work on him but I do'nt think I'd ever need it.

Ah, misdirect is op.
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Postby fuzzygeek » Tue May 27, 2008 1:06 pm

BoP used to remove the debuff, if I recall correctly, once upon a time?

Shame they changed it. It would trivialize a fairly Fun And Exciting (tm) fight.
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Postby Lore » Tue May 27, 2008 1:11 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:BoP used to remove the debuff, if I recall correctly, once upon a time?

Shame they changed it. It would trivialize a fairly Fun And Exciting (tm) fight.


BoP hasn't removed the debuff the tanks get since we've been doing the fight (it was one of the first things we tried). It DOES remove the bloodboil debuff that the ranged classes are rotating through, so maybe that's what you're thinking of.
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Postby Heironeous » Tue May 27, 2008 1:19 pm

My guild use to give me all sorts of crap about how paladins cant MT in end-game. With a guild leader/raid leader being a prot warrior I was not so shocked. Not to mention our previous paladin tanks before I changed specs were comeplete idiots. So I had a slump to roll over.

I took their mouth-fulls in some stride for a while, then I started pointing out why this ability they had or that was needed. Basicly I told em why a paladin does it better. If they dont kick you, they'll tell you to put your money where your mouth is. Just make sure you pull it off with some style.

If they keep telling you that a paladin cant tank? Post this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mrc1ivr48R4 on your vent signature and on the web-page.

If they dont get a clue after that then change guilds.
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Re: Bloodboil can be hit by exorcism? and BT help.

Postby Flashbane » Wed May 28, 2008 9:12 pm

Diabolist wrote: RoS phase 2 is the only fight that requires a warrior.


1st night on RoS phase 3, I was MT but failed coz raid grp went down too fast. Called it after few tried.

2nd night, out MT (warrior) tried to tank on phase3 but died in less then a min. I switch over to tank it. Used all the cooldown/Desrtuction Pot, dpser were insane all out dps and finished phase 3 real fast.

Whoever said pally cant tank end game content got to get slap :twisted:

Our raid members love it when I'm asked to spec Portection for MH/BT coz they can aoe eveything.
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Re: Bloodboil can be hit by exorcism? and BT help.

Postby Worldie » Thu May 29, 2008 5:34 am

Dragonzbane wrote:RoS phase 2 is the only fight that requires a warrior.

You sure about this? :D
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(ok, we overgear, but that's details, :D )

(yes any respectful raid has AT LEAST 5 paladins)
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halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Bloodboil can be hit by exorcism? and BT help.

Postby Katamai » Thu May 29, 2008 5:41 am

Worldie wrote:
Dragonzbane wrote:RoS phase 2 is the only fight that requires a warrior.

You sure about this? :D
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(ok, we overgear, but that's details, :D )

(yes any respectful raid has AT LEAST 5 paladins)


That made me giggle :P
Overgearing kinda changes things a bit though ^_^

EDIT: Worldie you aggro whore! Gief sanctity aura :P
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Re: Bloodboil can be hit by exorcism? and BT help.

Postby Dianora » Thu May 29, 2008 6:55 am

Dragonzbane wrote:
Diabolist wrote: Or... time to look for a new guild? Thanks.


This may eventually be the answer you're looking for.

But you should first take strides to educate the people in your guild.


My question to you is:
How can you guild actually say "paladins cant end game tank"?

Are they all really that stupid?
Do they know that the World 2nd Kil Jaeden defeat had a Prot Paladin?

Post some Paladin tanking Vids from BB all the up to Sunwell bosses.

If that doesn't make them admit the Paladins can tank then leave.


On our Bloodboil kill, we use whatever tanks that's online and actually needs the drop from him. We don't have a druid tank, but the last 2 kills have been 1 warrior 2 paladins.
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