Paladin Talent Changes in 2.3

How to get started.

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, lythac

Paladin Talent Changes in 2.3

Postby Desire » Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:45 am

(all information from worldofraids.com)
These changes are not official, but they were in the version shown at BlizzCon. According to the class panel, they're scheduled to be added in patch 2.3 (probably 2-3 months away).

These are all changes to Retribution talents, but at least one of them has a good chance of changing the cookie-cutter 0/49/12 build. I've heard rumors of new protection talents as well, but haven't been able to find confirmation on those yet.

Here are the talent changes (at this point):
- Crusader Strike CD reduced to 6 seconds
- Vengeance duration increased to 30 seconds
- Imp. Seal of the Crusader seems to have been scrapped. It has been replaced with Santified Crusader (still 3 points). Sanctified Crusader increases crit chance for all attacks made against the judged target by 3%.
- Sanctified Crusader has been replaced by "Sanctified Seals" The current tooltip reads "Increases spell and melee crit by 3% reduces the duration sanctified seals." This doesn't make any sense, and the talent probably isn't finished yet. Who knows what it's going to do.
- *unconfirmed* Vindication is reducing ALL stats by 15%.

Most of these changes are deep in the Retribution tree, and so not of too much interest to tanking paladins. However, the Sanctified Crusader move is very interesting...this talent is easily attainable, and very strong. Currently, it's probably the best reason to bring a Retribution paladin to a raid, and the fact that we'll be able to pick it up easily is probably a protection buff in disguise. For those of you who aren't raiding with a ret paladin (and I expect most of you probably aren't), your guild can now get a strong, raid-wide damage boost just by bring you along.

Also, it's too early to tell if this is a bug or not, but if Vindication continues to reduce ALL stats by 15%, it may well be worth picking up now (even if it doesn't work on raidbosses). Reducing the hp of trash mobs you're attacking by 15% seems pretty awesome for a lot of encounters.

I wouldn't put too much store by this information yet...after all, there's a strong possibility that some of it will change before being implemented (Sanctified Seals obviously will). Given that these changes to seem to be incoming though, it probably can't hurt to start thinking about the ramifications.
Last edited by Desire on Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Desire
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:28 pm

Postby Questioner » Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:49 am

That would seem like a very shortsighted change to me. Allowing any paladin to pick up Sanctified Crusader greatly diminishes the ret paladin's contribution to the raid.
<3 Tankadin at Heart.

Not necessarily accurate: Armory
User avatar
Questioner
 
Posts: 672
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:17 pm
Location: US Gorgonnash, Elis Guild

Postby Igrado » Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:53 am

Questioner wrote:That would seem like a very shortsighted change to me. Allowing any paladin to pick up Sanctified Crusader greatly diminishes the ret paladin's contribution to the raid.


agreed.
Image
User avatar
Igrado
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 868
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:47 am
Location: VA, USA

Postby Nich » Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:58 am

Questioner wrote:That would seem like a very shortsighted change to me. Allowing any paladin to pick up Sanctified Crusader greatly diminishes the ret paladin's contribution to the raid.

Sort of.

Which one do you judge, as a tank? Sanctified crusader, wisdom, or protection?
User avatar
Nich
 
Posts: 528
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:09 pm
Location: au.Blackrock

Postby Desire » Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:01 am

That would seem like a very shortsighted change to me. Allowing any paladin to pick up Sanctified Crusader greatly diminishes the ret paladin's contribution to the raid.


I noticed that too. Hopefully, the buffs deeper in Retribution (6 second CS, and the mysterious Sanctified Seals) will be significant enough to enhance Retribution raid viability. It looks like they're primarily concerned with raising Retribution's DPS at this point...perhaps that will be enough.

I'm not convinced that this change will have Holy paladins picking up Sanctified Crusader...my feeling is that a healer won't be able to keep the judgement up in most situations. It looks to me as if they're trying to spread the utility of Sanctified Crusader to Protection as well as Retribution...after all, both are underutilised raid specs.
Desire
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:28 pm

Postby Daedallus » Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:06 pm

i doubt sanctified crusader is going to be that low in the tree.

no other class gets a controllable 3% increase in total raid dps that low in their tree. look at the hunter talents that do roughly the same thing, all 31+ points up thier trees, and even they only apply to the group they are in except for the survival talent.

i would take all those changes with a grain of salt until they actually see the PTR. and even then...

and as for vindication reduceing stamina by 15% .... i see that working on just about... NO mobs that actually matter. i would rather vindication reduce agility and mob AC by a certain amount or percent. maybe like 10-20% for rank 2 and work on all targets, than have an ability that will ultimatly work on the same number of mobs that can be Hoj'd .... which is like zero that matter.

another usefull change to vindication would be to reduce target dmg output on all sources by 2/4% or 3/5% or some such. Giveing a single ret paladin at least a place in 25 man raids. and perhaps 10man if they are good enough to make people realize they have earned thier spot.
Image
Daedallus
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 1:32 pm

Postby sangre » Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:40 am

Nich wrote:Sort of.

Which one do you judge, as a tank? Sanctified crusader, wisdom, or protection?


Not sure what you mean by "judging protection," but obviously there are other ways to restore mana (shadow priest in the tanking group, for example).

Reducing the length of dps fights by adding in 3% more crits from the entire raid is going to reduce your need for mana over the longhaul. Of course, if you personally are running short on mana while the fight goes on, you can always seal Wisdom and let the ticks pour in.
sangre
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:26 am

Postby adese » Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:45 am

sangre wrote:
Nich wrote:Sort of.

Which one do you judge, as a tank? Sanctified crusader, wisdom, or protection?


Not sure what you mean by "judging protection," but obviously there are other ways to restore mana (shadow priest in the tanking group, for example).

Reducing the length of dps fights by adding in 3% more crits from the entire raid is going to reduce your need for mana over the longhaul. Of course, if you personally are running short on mana while the fight goes on, you can always seal Wisdom and let the ticks pour in.


Current rumors of the upcoming Tanking changes are giving us a Seal of Protection. The seal increases our health by up to 30% by damage we do (I think), and the Judgement decreases damage done by the mob by 10%.

Personally, I would judge Crusader at the beginning of a boss fight to give me a threat lead, Protection if I need extra mitigation (such as Prince Phase 2), or else Wisdom if there are lots of casters in the group and/or it's a long fight (like maybe Prince Phase 3).
Image
Image
adese
 
Posts: 692
Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 7:33 pm
Location: Aggramar

Postby Mortehl » Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:51 am

I think regarding the Blessing and Seal/Judge, we need to hang loose on the theorycrafting. Chances are they are going to have methods of building threat included with them. You can't cut into one of our largest sources of threat generation without returning some of that threat elsewhere.
Arthas, we're coming for you. (Eventually)
Mortehl
Moderator
 
Posts: 1289
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:25 am
Location: Naxx 10 prepping for Naxx 25

Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:01 pm

Mortehl wrote:I think regarding the Blessing and Seal/Judge, we need to hang loose on the theorycrafting. Chances are they are going to have methods of building threat included with them. You can't cut into one of our largest sources of threat generation without returning some of that threat elsewhere.


You are assuming Blizz knows what they are doing.

Looking at the priest disc/holy trees suggests otherwise.
Image
User avatar
fuzzygeek
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 5130
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:58 pm

Postby Zonzede » Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:18 pm

Mortehl wrote:I think regarding the Blessing and Seal/Judge, we need to hang loose on the theorycrafting. Chances are they are going to have methods of building threat included with them. You can't cut into one of our largest sources of threat generation without returning some of that threat elsewhere.


According to all the info we have atm, It's an 18 second seal on a 4 minute cooldown.
You'll have plenty of time to build threat in between.
Image
User avatar
Zonzede
 
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:56 am

Postby pyrotechniq » Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:19 am

Where is this info?
Image
pyrotechniq
 
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:38 pm


Return to Basic Training & Talents

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest