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Tanking weapons in Sunwell

Kalecgos, Brutallus, Felmyst, M'uru, Entropius, Kil'jaeden

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Postby Ryu » Tue May 27, 2008 8:38 am

Indeed, have a good word with your management, if the outcome is negative, fuck them and do your thing in a better guild dude. Getting told to pass on an weapon upgrade for you is pure bullshit, if people can't accept that they might have to share drops with you, then they don['t deserve your tanking skills either.

/strokes his tempest of chaos, "youre so pweetttyy"
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Postby Splug » Tue May 27, 2008 9:10 am

You guys sure are quick to jump on the "Life's not perfect? Leave the guild!" bandwagon. Is there really that huge a demand for prot paladins that you can up and relocate like that?

Every loot system has its flaws. If there was a perfect, universally acceptable setup, why aren't we all running it? I'll agree that being forced to pass a primary spec upgrade to a tryout is an odd call to make, but how much equipment did that guild not force you to pass? Is one controversial item really worth up and leaving over?

As for multi-class competition: in my guild, prot warriors, rogues, and fury warriors all bid on equal footing for the DEL. I think that's the direction Blizzard is trying to go in for warriors, and we should expect the trend of non-defensive physical weapons to continue into WotLK. Odds are that there never will be a defensive spellpower weapon, but we're going to see the defensive physical weapons go the way of the dinosaur as well. Sunwell is the first glimpse of it, and the "AP now effects everything" warrior changes would mean +STR weapons will be a viable threat increase rather than dead itemization, as is the case with the haste on DEL.

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Postby fuzzygeek » Tue May 27, 2008 9:21 am

Katamai wrote:(woot! faster cast on AS!)


On a side note, I'd love if AS had a faster cast. I'll sometimes gamble and work it into my threat rotation if I'm feeling particularly pressured on a slow-hitting boss.

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Postby Katamai » Tue May 27, 2008 10:05 am

fuzzygeek wrote:On a side note, I'd love if AS had a faster cast. I'll sometimes gamble and work it into my threat rotation if I'm feeling particularly pressured on a slow-hitting boss.

Making healers work is fun and exciting.


I bet AS is one of the least used 41 pt talent point abilities in game.
I use it very rarely on pulls and never on bosses due to risk of being turned into dust.

With the existing cooldown i am puzzled why it has a cast time at all but hey, no one said Blizzard was competent with paladins.
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Postby DJSticky » Tue May 27, 2008 10:35 am

Katamai wrote:
I bet AS is one of the least used 41 pt talent point abilities in game.
I use it very rarely on pulls and never on bosses due to risk of being turned into dust.


People who don't do Al'ar any more spec into AS? This is news.
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Postby Splug » Tue May 27, 2008 10:47 am

Katamai wrote:
fuzzygeek wrote:On a side note, I'd love if AS had a faster cast. I'll sometimes gamble and work it into my threat rotation if I'm feeling particularly pressured on a slow-hitting boss.

Making healers work is fun and exciting.


I bet AS is one of the least used 41 pt talent point abilities in game.
I use it very rarely on pulls and never on bosses due to risk of being turned into dust.

With the existing cooldown i am puzzled why it has a cast time at all but hey, no one said Blizzard was competent with paladins.
Endless Rage might be even lower on the list. There's some argument that it's a viable spec for 2v2's, but in any larger arenas or pve content, Flurry's just better. Slow is also pretty awful, especially given the mana cost.

-Splug

EDIT: I also had to look up the 41-point survival tallent, because I'd never even heard of it. Readiness - it's like prep for a class without cooldowns. I guess... it speeds up your rapid shot cooldown?
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Postby Katamai » Tue May 27, 2008 11:35 am

Splug wrote:
Katamai wrote:]Endless Rage might be even lower on the list. There's some argument that it's a viable spec for 2v2's, but in any larger arenas or pve content, Flurry's just better. Slow is also pretty awful, especially given the mana cost.

-Splug

EDIT: I also had to look up the 41-point survival tallent, because I'd never even heard of it. Readiness - it's like prep for a class without cooldowns. I guess... it speeds up your rapid shot cooldown?


As i said, "one of" :)

EDIT: Sticky, i have it only cause it's the only ranged ability i have. :?
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Postby fuzzygeek » Tue May 27, 2008 11:43 am

DJSticky wrote:People who don't do Al'ar any more spec into AS? This is news.


Wow, I must be doing something wrong. I use it all the time in BT. Supremus transitions, Shade adds, Gorefiend pull and while he's casting on someone, Gurtogg for leapfrogging threat, RoS.p3 pickup, Mother pull, Veras pickup; I'll likely be using it on Illidan transitions ...

I use AS on pretty much every trash pull, and for breaking sheeps on larger trash pulls.

Our last BT I used AS 104 times; week before was 117.

What do raids do with tanks without AS? Wait a few seconds before opening up with both barrels?
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Postby Ryu » Tue May 27, 2008 3:03 pm

Splug wrote:You guys sure are quick to jump on the "Life's not perfect? Leave the guild!" bandwagon. Is there really that huge a demand for prot paladins that you can up and relocate like that?
-Splug


So you're saying you just have to put up with it cause prot palas arent much in demand anyway (we should be lucky to be accepted)? If a guild tells you that you may not bid on certain items then yeah, screw them.
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Postby Lucit » Tue May 27, 2008 5:36 pm

DJSticky wrote:People who don't do Al'ar any more spec into AS? This is news.


Pretty handy for OTing (or MTing if you're brave and have reasonable latency).
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Postby Rorshach » Tue May 27, 2008 7:05 pm

Ryu wrote:
Splug wrote:You guys sure are quick to jump on the "Life's not perfect? Leave the guild!" bandwagon. Is there really that huge a demand for prot paladins that you can up and relocate like that?
-Splug


So you're saying you just have to put up with it cause prot palas arent much in demand anyway (we should be lucky to be accepted)? If a guild tells you that you may not bid on certain items then yeah, screw them.


What Splug says has a lot of truth, as much as it sucks. When guilds down Mu'ru with a respec'd holy paladin who's gear is nowhere near what I have I sit up and take notice and realize that my guild rocks because they let me progression kill Illidan with Faceguard of Determination when the most geared person in our raid has 2 pieces of T6.

I sit out on Brut unless they need a holy paladin and then I respec. If I want in on the Twins I'm spec'ing holy, but I do it without complaining because it means I'm still in for the boss killing. Splug is a nice guy and finds a use for tAngry's Prot Pally, who also has the gear to go ret when necessary (like Brut), which I do not as we have a resident ret pally.

Really, there are a TON of high-end guilds out there who do not use a protection-spec paladin for anything more than trash-tanking and THAT IS IT. So if you get to tank bosses on a regular basis be happy with that and don't be so quick to jump ship.
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Postby Elsie » Tue May 27, 2008 9:18 pm

Every loot system has its flaws. If there was a perfect, universally acceptable setup, why aren't we all running it? I'll agree that being forced to pass a primary spec upgrade to a tryout is an odd call to make, but how much equipment did that guild not force you to pass? Is one controversial item really worth up and leaving over?

Running PUG hyjal and not allowing one of, I assume, the primary tanks an upgrade for your guild makes one infer that the officer/loot deciders have no clue how paladins work or do not value him highly enough. That said, why on earth would you run PUG hyjal if there's no benefit? In my experience, your guild would think you're a dick for not wanting to help them when they NEED a prot paladin.

Oh, and that respec'd holy paladin tanking muru babies? Yeah, I'm sure you realize such guilds have been farming BT since june-september last year. It's virtually impossible not to have multiple sets of t6 at that point - even conqueror. At some point gear means less and class capability + player skill means more. It's also not the ONLY thing a prot paladin is capable of in the fight, and the other such roles are very gear intensive.

There are a TON of high end guilds out there that don't even have X spec of Y class or don't use them for anything more than farming. and THAT IS IT.
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Postby Lucit » Wed May 28, 2008 2:04 am

Rorshach wrote:Really, there are a TON of high-end guilds out there who do not use a protection-spec paladin for anything more than trash-tanking and THAT IS IT. So if you get to tank bosses on a regular basis be happy with that and don't be so quick to jump ship.


No shit. I consider myself pretty damn lucky that I'm basically the MT of a 4/6 guild right now. WTB prot warrior, right now it's me and a feral. ><
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Postby Rorshach » Wed May 28, 2008 2:35 am

Elsie wrote:Oh, and that respec'd holy paladin tanking muru babies? Yeah, I'm sure you realize such guilds have been farming BT since june-september last year. It's virtually impossible not to have multiple sets of t6 at that point - even conqueror. At some point gear means less and class capability + player skill means more. It's also not the ONLY thing a prot paladin is capable of in the fight, and the other such roles are very gear intensive.

There are a TON of high end guilds out there that don't even have X spec of Y class or don't use them for anything more than farming. and THAT IS IT.


Yeah Elsie, I can't remember who it was I was referencing specifically, but one of the first 3 kills was using a Holy Paladin respec'd to tank who's gear was worse than mine at that time and I didn't have my T6 bracers yet even. The paladin in question was using ZA mace and Kaz'rogal shield.
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Postby Mithos » Wed May 28, 2008 3:48 am

I am also keeping a very close eye on the WotLK talents skills etc. After looking through the warrior stuff and noting the shockwave, leap attack and BLADESTORM!?, we better get some fucking cool and USEFUL things else there are gonna be a few less pallies running about. Ofc it is bad to go by what is in the alpha as it is so subject to change, but still...

Anyone else seeing how the new spells are basically Warcraft 3/Diablo 2 spells? ;D. Not that it's a bad thing, they are very nice.

Also, I am finding myself gearing up/practising for S4 as holy to get the bloody S4 mace (and the spell haste one, faster dispels on felmyst ftw). Why oh WHY do I have to be in Cyclone-EU -_-. That said, one of the holy palas in my guild was gladiator in S1 and S2, and would have been this season if his teams didnt fuckup (don't exactly know what happened), so I'm getting some nice help :>.
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