Why not wear two Stam trinkets?

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Postby Elsie » Mon May 26, 2008 8:15 am

Edit: Ulushnar had this great idea for "modular gearing" which is something I've been trying to do for a while.

It just ends up that way. There's really nothing you can fully replace some items with such as tier 6 (without it being a direct upgrade usually).
Personally, I carry 3 cloaks, 2 necks, 4 rings, 3 shields, 7-8 trinkets. I used to also carry 2 belts.
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Re: Why not wear two Stam trinkets?

Postby Ferrosis » Mon May 26, 2008 8:16 am

Ashmadai wrote:http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Malfurion&n=Ashmadai

There's my armory. I always see people say don't wear two stam trinkets, and I'm wondering why. I'm in a 5/6 SSC 3/4 TK guild, and we're about to start Hyjal. Unbuffed now I am right at 16k HP, with about 53% pure avoidance. My dodge is at almost 24% unbuffed. Fully raid buffed I end up at almost 21k HP and 55% avoidance, 26% of it as dodge.

Should I go with Moroes trinket or the Guardian's Alchemist Stone(which I'm going to craft) over the DMC:V? I'm going to lose like 600 HP for about 3% avoidance.

I suppose for boss tanking that extra avoidance would be nice, but I also don't want to go too high on avoidance where my threat sucks due to not enough Holy Shield.


What is your typical group composition, buffs, that 368 spell damage doesn't make your dps cry (given your buffed health of 21k)?
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Postby Worldie » Mon May 26, 2008 11:46 am

I like to have a wannabepanicbutton.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby ShieldLove » Mon May 26, 2008 11:58 am

Personally, I believe having the extra 2% dodge on the pocket watch is more effective than the extra 600 damage starting point. Especially when that extra dodge turns a 5000 damage hit (with block) into a 0 damage hit.

I keep three trinkets. The DMC:V is always on. The Moroes Pocket watch fills my second slot for pure avoidance, and the Figurine of the Colossus when my new gear upgrade takes me out of uncrushable or i'm AOE tanking.

Simple, effective, and sexy.
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Postby Gideon » Mon May 26, 2008 12:56 pm

Worldie wrote:I like to have a wannabepanicbutton.


Would you still use it if they gave us a real panic button?
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Postby Ashmadai » Mon May 26, 2008 1:42 pm

What is your typical group composition, buffs, that 368 spell damage doesn't make your dps cry (given your buffed health of 21k)?


It really just depends on what I'm doing. I just did a full clear of ZA on Saturday with:

Me(MT)
Feral Druid(OT)
Fury Warrior
Demo/Destro Lock
Hunter
Mage
Boomkin
Pally/Priest/Priest Healers

Honestly, I never threat cap any DPS I run with. The best DPSers I run with are BM Hunters, Locks, and a mage and they generally go around 1100 to 1300 DPS depending on what we're doing.

I stay consistent around 950 to 1000 TPS with spikes of over 1500 if I get some quick Holy Shield charges in there. I always use Wizard Oil, so my SD is generally just above 400.

I figure once we get into T6 as a guild I will need more SD, but honestly at the progression level we're at I can't get any more SD without sacrificing too much avoidance and then I will feel like a gimp for boss tanking.
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Postby Magnusharkov » Mon May 26, 2008 1:59 pm

Recently I've started using the commendation along with the crimson serpent.

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=35700

I'm really happy with this setup and I find I don't tend to miss the moroes trinket too much, having extra available threat feels more useful to me on all but cutting edge progression stuff.
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Postby Worldie » Mon May 26, 2008 2:13 pm

Gideon wrote:
Worldie wrote:I like to have a wannabepanicbutton.


Would you still use it if they gave us a real panic button?

Probably not unless it's exceptionally good (ie, shadowmoon insigna)
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Eneru » Mon May 26, 2008 5:32 pm

I use 2 stamina trinekts when I'm going to take huge unavoidable damage (e.g Void sentinels on m'uru)

In most cases I wear my Moroe's watch for the use. It has saved my life many times :D
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Postby Lore » Mon May 26, 2008 7:07 pm

Depends entirely on the encounter. Trinket is a very flexible spot.
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Postby kensanity » Mon May 26, 2008 8:49 pm

I like the discussion going on in here! just yesterday i was introduced with the same dilemma. Usually, I have DMC:V and the commendation in trinket slots to give me the most effective health. However this has caused me to gem differently to achieve the necessary defense to remain uncrittable.

JUST LAST night tho, I created two trinkets. The Tortoise dodge/def one and the Serpent stam/threat one.

Ive since regemmed to be above 485 defense with DMC:V and commendation, and to be above 490 defense and uncrushable when I have the Tortoise in place of the DMC:V. I am SERIOUSLY contemplating DMC:V with the Serpent for good. =)

anyway, yeah just putting in my two cents

BACK ON TOPiC: I've never really felt the need for an "oh snap!" button because ironshield pots and commendation proc have always been pretty reliable. But having the button with the tortoise does make me feel warm and safe inside :). even at the loss of 500 health. Wondering what I would use when fighting nalorakk and Halazzi in ZA tho....
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Postby DJSticky » Tue May 27, 2008 1:01 am

Different mobs call for different choices. 95% of the time I will wear two trinkets with a click use because 90% of the time I don't need the bonus stam, but when I do I can click the item and get a higher return be it through SMI, Battlemasters, ZJ trinket or the Pocketwatch.

For fights were I take a large amount of damage the entire time I"m in combat I will most likely wear the Commendation + SMI such as Kalecgos, Brut or Twins. I will most likely go DBL Stam on Muru provided I do'nt need the defense of the SMI.

Overall I prefer the click on the SMI or Battlemasters to the static bonus because like I mentioned earlier, most of the time my health is more then enough and when I need that extra health I get more from the click. Plus both click health trinkets provide me with more usefull stats when I do not need their use then a plain stam trinket.
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Postby Diocaska » Tue May 27, 2008 2:26 am

As stated by others. Its very nice to have an "oh shit" button. Only very few bosses have I ever felt the need to push my stamina a significant amount (Teron Gorefiend).

Granted, when you're not quite as geared, the extra bit of health can be really nice, but I don't see much other justification for it. But I got geared in a few big bursts, thus really overgear the content I'm in, which I believe may be a factor for some other tanks of the same opinion as myself.

I use DM:V and Moroes Lucky Pocket Watch. I feel it provides alot of balance in my gear. I got unlucky with the trinket from MgT so far, and I'm sick of grinding instances I don't enjoy for gear, thus its on hold for the time being, but I'd replace the DM:V once I get it.

For threat, I use Icon of the Silver Cresent, Tome of Firey Redeption only dropped when I wasn't in the raid, or I'd probably use both.

I have a few others, the parry trinket from ZA, and the Dabiri's Enigma, and some other random items, if I ever need them.

Versitility is win. I'd never restrict myself to just two trinkets.
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Postby DeadlyRabbit » Tue May 27, 2008 7:52 am

I always have http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31858 on when tanking for stam and bonus threat (the proc does crit quite often), and for trash I usually combine it with http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27529, for boss fights I go with http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28528, like others have said that trinket makes the difference between a wipe and a kill too often to ignore.

I have other trinkets too, when tanking the dragonhawks in ZA I use http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31856 to have more threat.

I have looked at double stam trinkets but overall completely avoiding a 5k is better to me then having another 500hp and with all the overhealing in raids having 500 less HP gets absorb very fast. I am always working on my balance of HP, avoidance and spell damage, and with 520 spell damage and 16k unbuffed HP I am very happy with where I am sitting.

If more HP was the only thing that mattered all tanks would be walking around in boe greens with Stam as the only stat and 2 stam trinkets.
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Postby fuzzygeek » Tue May 27, 2008 8:15 am

Part of the problem with these questions is that the "correct" answer changes depending on the content, your gear level, your progression level, your healers, and your raid makeup.

5mans? Sure, go stam.

Farm content? Maybe go stam so you take more hits for more mana, since everyone outgears everything anyway.

Progression raid content? Stam + avoidance is probably better, depending on the fight. Sometimes avoidance+avoidance will work better.

For example: when my guild started Vashj I was wearing a DMC:V+PW; that 8k attack she did would always leapfrog the extra stam I got from DMC:V, so I switched to the Hydross trinket + PW, and saw my damage intake drop, and a dead boss shortly thereafter.

When we started Hyjal I wore the Figurine and the Autoblocker. Now we outgear the content, so I wear two spell damage trinkets.

I still generally wear the Hydross trinket ( http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30629 ); for Illidan I'll wear the PW.

With the Commendation available now, we basically have a stam+avoidance trinket in a single slot. The question is what to do with the second slot.

There's no single right answer all the time; what works for my raid won't necessairly work for yours; my tanking style probably doesn't match yours. Try a few things and see what works best for each encounter -- talk to your healers and see if they have any feedback; ask your DPS if they're having problems with you tanking.
Last edited by fuzzygeek on Tue May 27, 2008 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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