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Tanking weapons in Sunwell

Kalecgos, Brutallus, Felmyst, M'uru, Entropius, Kil'jaeden

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Postby Chromax » Thu May 22, 2008 6:57 am

It seems weapon progression (which is usually the case for The End Game Boss) does not include Prot-Pally itemization. I rekon its back to the Arena to achieve an ilvl 164 weapon.

Maybe there are still more items to be unlocked that will make us smile.
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Postby Katamai » Thu May 22, 2008 9:16 am

Not to mention that from what i know, we don't even have Sunwell gloves while warriors get both tanking and DPS ones.

My set will look just great with Borderland Fortress Grips, not to mention the loss of spell dmg... :evil:

EDIT: What the hell? Helm of Uther's Resolve is ilvl 159 while Helm of Burning Righteousness is 164... awesome!
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Postby Lucit » Thu May 22, 2008 9:26 am

Katamai wrote:EDIT: What the hell? Helm of Uther's Resolve is ilvl 159 while Helm of Burning Righteousness is 164... awesome!


As far as I can tell, all of the "transmuted" helms are ilvl 159. Hopefully just an oversight, along with the strange glove situation.
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Postby Worldie » Thu May 22, 2008 9:32 am

That doesn't change that the helm is fucking awesome.
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Postby Dragonzbane » Thu May 22, 2008 10:02 am

Worldie wrote:That doesn't change that the helm is fucking awesome.


But not as good as the warrior version.
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Postby Dragonzbane » Thu May 22, 2008 10:03 am

Chromax wrote:It seems weapon progression (which is usually the case for The End Game Boss) does not include Prot-Pally itemization. I rekon its back to the Arena to achieve an ilvl 164 weapon.

Maybe there are still more items to be unlocked that will make us smile.


Don't bet on it.
This is one of the reasons that Aalaryn (sp?) quit WoW.
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Postby Lucit » Thu May 22, 2008 10:08 am

Dragonzbane wrote:
Worldie wrote:That doesn't change that the helm is fucking awesome.


But not as good as the warrior version.


The warrior version, that is also ilvl 159? :P
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Postby Splug » Thu May 22, 2008 10:28 am

Katamai wrote:Not to mention that from what i know, we don't even have Sunwell gloves while warriors get both tanking and DPS ones.

My set will look just great with Borderland Fortress Grips, not to mention the loss of spell dmg... :evil:
I'll give you the skin doesn't match up, but ultimately the BFG is a class-neutral item: there aren't any warrior threat stats there either. I'm going to be dropping expertise to use them... if they ever drop. And claiming that there's "also a DPS warrior glove" would be like pointing out the healing plate gloves from M'uru: they don't do the spec you're talking about much good.
Chromax wrote:It seems weapon progression (which is usually the case for The End Game Boss) does not include Prot-Pally itemization. I rekon its back to the Arena to achieve an ilvl 164 weapon.

Maybe there are still more items to be unlocked that will make us smile.
Did I miss a warrior tanking weapon on Kil'jaedan?

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Postby Lore » Thu May 22, 2008 10:31 am

Pro warriors tank with healing maces.
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Postby Lucit » Thu May 22, 2008 10:38 am

Splug wrote:Did I miss a warrior tanking weapon on Kil'jaedan?


No, but there's a warrior tanking weapon off Kalecgos; paladins are still using an Archimonde drop.
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Postby Fridmarr » Thu May 22, 2008 10:46 am

I'm sure blizzard feels like the Reign of Misery is our Sunwell level tanking weapon.
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Postby Splug » Thu May 22, 2008 10:47 am

Lucit wrote:
Splug wrote:Did I miss a warrior tanking weapon on Kil'jaedan?


No, but there's a warrior tanking weapon off Kalecgos; paladins are still using an Archimonde drop.
Wee, haste rating. The higher weapon damage is cool, but ultimately it's a sidegrade from The Brutalizer - losing 20ish defense rating in exchange for +1 expertise and +8 weapon damage (Ok, maybe it'd be a more clear upgrade if I wasn't an orc... because I'm seeing -4 expertise skill). In the end, sidegrade + backmounted and actually shows enchant = save from DE. For comparison, there's a spellpower mace off Brutallus, with the same wasted itemization into haste.... only this time for spells.

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Postby Lore » Thu May 22, 2008 10:55 am

Fridmarr wrote:I'm sure blizzard feels like the Reign of Misery is our Sunwell level tanking weapon.


In all honesty it's not that bad either. Yeah the spell haste gets wasted most of the time, but so does the spell hit and crit on the Tempest.

Also keep in mind that The Brutalizer is ilevel 141, whereas ToC is 151, so Warriors were already a few ilevels behind us for that slot. Granted, ToC isn't itemized perfectly for us, but that's a separate discussion I think.
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Postby Lucit » Thu May 22, 2008 10:57 am

Splug wrote:
Lucit wrote:
Splug wrote:Did I miss a warrior tanking weapon on Kil'jaedan?


No, but there's a warrior tanking weapon off Kalecgos; paladins are still using an Archimonde drop.
Wee, haste rating. The higher weapon damage is cool, but ultimately it's a sidegrade from The Brutalizer - losing 20ish defense rating in exchange for +1 expertise and +8 weapon damage (Ok, maybe it'd be a more clear upgrade if I wasn't an orc... because I'm seeing -4 expertise skill). In the end, sidegrade + backmounted and actually shows enchant = save from DE. For comparison, there's a spellpower mace off Brutallus, with the same wasted itemization into haste.... only this time for spells.


The Kalec sword is a direct stam/threat upgrade (meh for orcs, but otherwise). OTOH, RoM is 7 damage at the loss of stamina and spellhit, so it's a stam downgrade without any noticeable threat difference. Warriors are better off, and don't even get me started on how much better the warrior T6.5 "set" is itemized. :\
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Postby Splug » Thu May 22, 2008 11:13 am

Lucit wrote:
Splug wrote:
Lucit wrote:
Splug wrote:Did I miss a warrior tanking weapon on Kil'jaedan?


No, but there's a warrior tanking weapon off Kalecgos; paladins are still using an Archimonde drop.
Wee, haste rating. The higher weapon damage is cool, but ultimately it's a sidegrade from The Brutalizer - losing 20ish defense rating in exchange for +1 expertise and +8 weapon damage (Ok, maybe it'd be a more clear upgrade if I wasn't an orc... because I'm seeing -4 expertise skill). In the end, sidegrade + backmounted and actually shows enchant = save from DE. For comparison, there's a spellpower mace off Brutallus, with the same wasted itemization into haste.... only this time for spells.


The Kalec sword is a direct stam/threat upgrade (meh for orcs, but otherwise). OTOH, RoM is 7 damage at the loss of stamina and spellhit, so it's a stam downgrade without any noticeable threat difference. Warriors are better off, and don't even get me started on how much better the warrior T6.5 "set" is itemized. :\
+3 stam, -22 defense rating. I do not consider that a survivability upgrade, and a very minor EH upgrade. I've also read somewhere that the increased HS potential on a 1.5 speed weapon gets overshined by the lost dps from devastate at an equal-dps 1.6 speed weapon, but Tankspot is down atm so I can't verify that. The average damage on Brutalizer is 160.5, the average on DEL is 162. Devastate cuts it in half, meaning a gain of roughly .75 pre-armor damage per devastate. There should be two dev's per 6 second cycle, so the gain is roughly (.75/3*1.45 = ~.36 TPS pre-armor) Thus the 8 weapon DPS still converts cleanly into white damage (+12 TPS before armor) and there's roughly no net-change on devastate as a result. At full-burn on threat, the contribution by HS's threat modifier is increased by 6.25% (as well as the rage consumed). I can't remember the threat modifier on HS off hand, but that could be a significant change... if you have the rage income to fuel it.

Conclusion: we both believe we got screwed because Blizzard thinks haste is better than we think it is. And now, back to you, Kil'jaedan!

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