Trouble with Prince

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Trouble with Prince

Postby Lord_Paladin » Sun May 18, 2008 5:11 am

http://www.warcrafter.net/sandbox/62399

First off, thats the gear I'm in when tanking. You should be able to see the stuff in my sig below, but the above is a static gear list unlike the armory.

Anyways, I tried prince for the third run the other night and I can't seem to get him down. Either we get horrible infernal placement, or I got parry-gibbed (in which case i've stopped attacking during phase 2) or something just random happens.

We've used the strategy of having the ranged people huddle near the door while I tank him against the wall to the right just outside of his shadow AoE range. We finally trained the melee DPS to get the hell out of there. For whatever reason, though, I just can't seem to make it through the fight. I think some of it may just be a bad starting position, but in phase 3 the infernals spawn faster so... I just dont know.

I'm uncrushable, so that out of the way, am I missing something I should be changing for my gear to do the fight? Am I geared fine, and we just need to change our tactics? We usually try with 2-3 healers. Either 2 priests and a shammy or a priest and a resto shammy.
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Postby Tankznspankz » Sun May 18, 2008 5:40 am

Get rid of your 8int gem.
Devotion aura oder Ret. Aura ?
Kings or Sanc ?

your gear should be fine to tank prince.
hit your healers with a stick!
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Postby Catriona » Sun May 18, 2008 6:34 am

Tankznspankz wrote:Get rid of your 8int gem.
Devotion aura oder Ret. Aura ?
Kings or Sanc ?

your gear should be fine to tank prince.
hit your healers with a stick!

...sounds like a great way to get them to heal you.

News flash: it is not always your healers' fault.


What is random? Okay, you stopped auto-attacking during phase 2 to not get parry gibbed. Good. Are you getting crushed when lag hits? Are you taking too much damage? How long are you going between heals? Are you OOMing? When are you dying?
What is killing you exactly?
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Postby Eltiana » Sun May 18, 2008 7:20 am

I doubt what we do is optimal, but we tank him at around the 12:00 position(assuming the door is near the 5/6:00 position) and have the DPS stand near the center of the room. Reasoning is to give the DPS more room to manuever. Found when we stacked DPS near the door, by Phase 2/3 they'd be surrounded by infernals, if not one falling right on top of them.
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Re: Trouble with Prince

Postby Morganim » Sun May 18, 2008 10:41 am

Lord_Paladin wrote:http://www.warcrafter.net/sandbox/62399

First off, thats the gear I'm in when tanking. You should be able to see the stuff in my sig below, but the above is a static gear list unlike the armory.

Anyways, I tried prince for the third run the other night and I can't seem to get him down. Either we get horrible infernal placement, or I got parry-gibbed (in which case i've stopped attacking during phase 2) or something just random happens.

We've used the strategy of having the ranged people huddle near the door while I tank him against the wall to the right just outside of his shadow AoE range. We finally trained the melee DPS to get the hell out of there. For whatever reason, though, I just can't seem to make it through the fight. I think some of it may just be a bad starting position, but in phase 3 the infernals spawn faster so... I just dont know.

I'm uncrushable, so that out of the way, am I missing something I should be changing for my gear to do the fight? Am I geared fine, and we just need to change our tactics? We usually try with 2-3 healers. Either 2 priests and a shammy or a priest and a resto shammy.


First off,
How are you getting parry gibbed, as a tankadin that really sholdnt be possible, and as for stopping attacking, well theres no point doing that either lol.

As for your gear, you have more than enough to do this encounted, i did it back in the day in a lot less gear.

Are you running 2 or 3 healers ?
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Postby Lalecize » Sun May 18, 2008 12:55 pm

Whats your buffed hp?

Generally anything less than 16k can be dangerous on prince if you take a parry.

As above how many healers are you running?

A few points

* If you run 3 healers, have 1 healer solo heal you until phase 2. This saves the others 2's mana and prevents too many overheals.
Same with only 2 healers - only 1 to begin with.

* DONT use a hunter md. MD is bugged on Prince and sometimes it can cause you to take an enfeeble. This would be an instadeath pretty much.

* Be miles ahead on threat. Just to make sure there is no chance of an enfeeble. You can still hold aggro and get enfeebled. For example a hunter on 125% threat. You will still hold aggro as If i remember correctly ranged needs to get to 130% to steal a mob off ya. However with the hunter being "ahead" of you on threat (even though Prince is still beating on you) - you WILL get enfeebled. DPS needs to not get anywhere near your threat. Remember to exorcize :D

* How much melee DPS are you packing? If you have 4 melee dps'ers then your gna be in trouble. Melee cannot do a hell of a lot easily on this fight.

* Whats the dps like? If your DPS can't get him down fast enough then it puts extra strain on your healers, particularly during phase 2. The longer he lives the more chance you have to die.
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Postby Lord_Paladin » Sun May 18, 2008 5:25 pm

Let me see if I can answer all the questions.

With just kings i'm around 14 and a half, and when we had the lock with up and the imp buff, I was a little over 16, what with food and fort.

The first couple times we ran with 3 healers, 2 priests and a resto shammy (I had slightly worse gear, but have always been uncrushable since setting foot inside). But this most recent time we ran with just one priest and resto shammy... I felt considerably squishier. Things were going well, but I lagged at a bad time and parry crushed.

Threat usually isn't a problem. I use wiz oil and flask of blinding light when I can get it and save it for prince. I have yet to be enfeebled, or have anyone close to me on threat. We usually only have 1 or 2 melee dps (furry war and a rogue). This most recent time we packed a lock, 2 mages, 2 huntes, rogue, fury war. DPS didn't seem to be a problem for any of the other bosses, and we were burning him pretty quick.

off hand, I think everyone was between 400 and 700 dps.

We've wiped several times on him because of infernals either landing on me, or landing on top of the healers who then are trapped in there door. I'm not sure if we've just been unlucky, or if we should change. Apparantly people have said this door trick worked for them in the past.

I am getting low on mana, but usually with mana potions I can keep up my consistent rotation before I have to swallow another potion. This (usually) to me means that something is going on with my damage/healing. And honestly, I dont know about the time between the heals. My eyes are focused on my timers and I mash that holy shield button like I was tanking maiden.

It seems to be sudden burst damage that kills me. I can go 7 hits without taking any damage, and then suddenly I'm hit with 4 quick blows and tank. I think sunder may be an issue in phase 2? How much does that increase the damage by? I noticed he goes from hitting me for around 3k ish damage, to just under 5k

As for buff, I always use devo aura and kings for boss fights.

I've been looking at that. I figured it was okay since I was uncrushable, and I'm usually running low on mana. Should I drop another 12hp gem in there, or go for a dodge gem?
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Postby Lalecize » Sun May 18, 2008 5:58 pm

Go for as much hp while remaining uncrushable.

Sounds like you know your stuff dude. Healer issue I'd say.

If you take a parry and a thrash (make sure melee dps only dps's him from behind) you can get hit for around 15-16k. This would be most of your health.

Not only that but he also as you pointed out hits a lot harder during that phase. Your healers need to keep you topped off for the fight. If they let you sit at 2/3 health and you take a thrash - your dead.

Ask your healers to constantly spam their biggest heals through phase two - Even if you are at full health just to make sure.

Lemme know how it goes!
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Postby Levantine » Mon May 19, 2008 12:18 am

:< Everything's a healer issue on these boards.
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Postby Cosmoz » Mon May 19, 2008 12:37 am

with "okich" gear, make sure to stop attack during P2. 3 healers should have no problem at all to keep you up. nor should 2 healers...
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Postby Lord_Paladin » Mon May 19, 2008 4:50 am

Yea, I figured two healers wouldn't have been a problem either (holy priest with almost 2k bonus healing buffed, and resto shammy with 1800 bonus healing unbuffed). But for whatever reason it wasn't working out. Something especially felt off that night (maybe it was having only 2 healers instead of 3) but I just couldn't put my finger on it.

My philosophy is.. if its the healers fault, there's really nothing I can do (other than strategize with them) so I have to figure out what -I- can do improve my end to make it easier on the healers. As it stands, I'm two badges shy of getting the BP of Stoicism. That'll be a nice upgrade from my Aldor rep BP (vindicator). I've had that thing forever, but I think the 500+ armor and 700 some odd HP and .5% more dodge should help. I'll be just shy of uncrushable with it (because of the drop from like... 46 defense to 20 some odd) but with a single 8 dodge rating gem that should be enough to make me uncrushable.

I guess I was just concerned that maybe avoidance wasn't high enough. As I get kara gear, I've been changing out gems and enchants to try and get more HP. With this BP I should be able to hit 15k with just kings, so I think thats a big step on the right path.

Another question, since I just got exalted with SSO. I picked up both shields. So now I have Crest of the Sha'tar (more avoidance(cause of defense tipping me over into the next %) and HP), the Dawnforge defender (higher block value, more dodge), and the Sunstrike (highest uncrushable rating, higher block value, additional spell damage).

Which shield should I use? If i use the sunstrike (or whatever its called) I could probably not have to put that dodge gem on my BP. But I lose 1% of avoidance and it moves to block%. Is that okay, or for prince do I really want to concentrate on having as much pure avoidance as I can?
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Postby Snake-Aes » Mon May 19, 2008 5:22 am

1: Keep a parse of your deaths around. Recount has a very graphical display of your last seconds of life. This will tell you whether you got wtfpwned, parrygibbed, abandoned by the healers, licked in your private parts, or whatever.

Things to consider in this fight...
2: phase 2 and 3 are dps races. He does a lot of damage, p2 is critical on the tank and healers' mana, p3 is critical as infernal overwhelming.
3: He's bugged. Don't pull with misdirect. Do the pull yourself, position and THEN misdirect.
4: No one can be above you on threat, even if they don't pull aggro. Not being top on threat = enfeebable.
5: I say don't worry about parrygibs, that's a dps issue. Paladins have only autoattack to be parried, it's rare, and on prince, parrygib or not you'd die anyway. Melee dps *cannot* stay in front of him. They'll get parried 300x more than you. And they getting parried means YOU take the hit.
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Postby Antharas » Mon May 19, 2008 7:04 am

do u guys have any proof of this enfeebled if u get MD pulled bullshit? ive tanked kara for 6+ months now every week, and gotten that glitch once. it was the one time i DIDNT have a hunter MD me

for the OP.... try using the 2500 armor pot when u get into phase 2, should help u considerably, and make sure u never let HS down and u should be fine to tank it. problem would then be dumb melee (attacking from the front) or slow/undergeared healers
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Postby Bavarian » Mon May 19, 2008 11:10 am

Kind of hard to actually find a problem here. Sounds like you're doing it right.

For the record, I stop the autoattack for phase 2 and just hold him with exorcise and cons. My spelldamage is only around 300'ish and I haven't had a problem there. I DID get parry gibbed once and that was enough to convice me to stop auto attacking and it's worked just fine.

It was mentioned above but this MIGHT be the problem... make sure your melee dps is 100% behind him!!

We downed him last night with a main tree healer and a new pally healer with like 1300+. So you're healing shouldn't be the problem.

And I hold him on the wall to the right of the doorway, down past the first cleft, kind of close to the far wall. The group comes out from the door to get at max range, and if an infernal drops close to me, I can move towards the door, and the group simply backs up a little. Usually there's enough room for several small adjustments d/t infernals and we're okay. Sometimes we eat one and start over.
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Postby mazater » Mon May 19, 2008 10:58 pm

Antharas wrote:do u guys have any proof of this enfeebled if u get MD pulled bullshit? ive tanked kara for 6+ months now every week, and gotten that glitch once. it was the one time i DIDNT have a hunter MD me


As far as I know, the 'tank gets enfeeble' glitch isn't caused by hunter MD, but instead while Prince changes from phase 1 to phase 2, or from phase 2 to 3. During phase change he might not target the tank or some other way bug, making the MT vulnereable to enfeeble and thus one shotting him.

This was discussed somewhere around here long time ago iirc, I have no idea why hunter's MD would fuck things up 'tho, it's just extra threat.
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