When is enough HP enough?

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Postby Eaglestrike » Fri May 16, 2008 4:32 am

I've been considering gemming a bit since eventually someday I'm certain my server will actually unlock the badge gem vendor. Currently I have 16.2k hp unbuffed and I'm uncrushable with just over 49% avoidance once I'm raid buffed. I've been wondering if I should get the +10 dodge rating gems and throw them in red sockets or just spam the stam+15 gems everywhere.

I asked my guild and pretty much everyone, healer or otherwise, told me to just stack stamina, and that's my current plan, but with this thread here and people saying 16k unbuffed is plenty to start BT I'm kinda wondering about things, lol, because I have never been a part of a 25-man raid, ever.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Fri May 16, 2008 4:42 am

Socket bonuses get "Diluted", as in with epic gems, you have to 'lose' much more stamina, comparatively, when using a non-solid-empyrean-sapphire gem.
Keep doing your common sense check on the bonuses to see what you want.
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Postby Ceeko » Fri May 16, 2008 1:41 pm

Akonda wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but the higher your avoidance, the less predictable you are to heal, therefore it would have a reverse affect?

roosevelt wrote:Enough HP is enough when you're sacrificing other stats to the point that...

A.) Your mitigation/avoidance is so low that your healers can't maintain healing per second equal to your damage per second intake.

B.) Your healers can keep you up but run out of mana from using inefficient heals.

You're saying that not worrying about pure avoidance will reduce the number of times that you suddenly don't need to be healed as much. That, however, is not a bad thing. Less predictable because of huge damage spikes is bad, less predictable from less damage is a great thing.

Roosevelt is saying that if you don't have dodge/parry amounts that you need, then you'll be taking a large amount of damage *all* the time. Sure, that's not a damage spike, but it will get you killed for a similar reason. If your healers have to constantly dump their biggest heals on you to keep you up, they'll run out of mana much too fast. Or, they won't even be able to keep up with it (3 8k hits within 1 second will kill you, dodge 1 and you're fine.) You know this since you're holy right now, as per your post.

Two sides to the same coin, need to find the balance between the two (3 really, since we need to be hit for the TPS...)
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Postby Eaglestrike » Fri May 16, 2008 2:07 pm

So what are good dodge/parry ratings to look for if you were to be starting/in SSC/TK? Currently I'm at 49.8% avoidance fully raid buffed, 16.2k hp unbuffed and have commendation of Kael'thas and Ardent defender when I get low. Should I be working on getting to 55% avoidance or so, or just keep stacking stamina?
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Postby Splug » Fri May 16, 2008 2:07 pm

Effective health is great to a point, but as mentioned earlier, if you can live through three swings and not die, there's not a whole lot of point to getting more health. Avoidance is a (combination of) stats that give increasing returns: the more you have, the more reliable it becomes. If you're over about 60% (adjusted for boss level), you can fairly reliably expect one out of four swings to miss (.4^4 = .0256, a 2.56% chance of being hit all four attacks).

...

I forgot where I was going with this but it boils down to "I agree with roosevelt, and his post more or less sums up a fairly common middle-ground camp." More avoidance is actually more consistent damage intake, insofar as likelihood of surviving 4 attacks without heals. By the time mobs swing 4 times, odds are fairly high that either someone will finish a heal on you, or it wasn't coming anyway and you're probably screwed regardless!

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Postby Akonda » Fri May 16, 2008 9:18 pm

Alright. The general consensus I'm getting here is I'm too "extreme" with my stam. I am looking at my gear and I see some places where red yellow blue with a socket bonus won't cause me to sustain such a stamina loss.

65% avoidance shouldn't be hard, I've got TONS of extra gear. 4 pairs of legs (including t5 but excluding t6), praetoran, 75 badge and...ok three I guess. I now have access to the epic gem vendor and have over 300 badges, I guess I can go nuts on gems.

Thank you all.
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Postby roosevelt » Fri May 16, 2008 9:34 pm

Before you regem keep in mind that stam enchants are the biggest rip-off ever. Consider replacing 150 hp to chest with 15 defense rating, in gems you get 1.5 stam = 1 defense rating. 12 stam on bracers vs 12 defense rating and the 10 stam armor patches for gloves and boots are pretty bad too.

Those are just some common places people like to over stam where you can get avoidance for cheaper. It would help more if we could see your armory.
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