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Starting TK. For real.

A'lar, Void Reaver, Solarian, Kael'thas

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Should my Guild skip Gruuls and gogo TK or Not.

Gogo TK!
4
11%
Nono TK, do Gruul's.
31
84%
Above all you Guildy is an IDIOT. (GKICK!!)
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5%
 
Total votes : 37

Starting TK. For real.

Postby Precio » Sat May 10, 2008 3:03 pm

From any person's PoV. If you have a guild running 2 kara groups a week, running 1 ZA group a week (have killed only 1st 2 bosses), buying plenty of badge gear. Would that Guild be able to skip Gruul's/Mag's Lair? And if it is possible, Would it be recommended to do so or not to do so.

P.S.: One of our guildies just bought 1250g worth of Nether Vortexes with his BoJ's. Should I, as one of the Guild's attributing Progressors be pissed? Because IMO badges shouldn't be wasted on that stuff. Especially if we are running Kara to get them gear. AND Badges. So that as a guild we can progress instead of getting places faster in the Outlands. (he bought epic flyer...)
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Postby Seloei » Sat May 10, 2008 11:56 pm

TK trash will murder you, not to mention the bosses if you cant even clear ZA with 2 groups.

Do gruul, its easy and it gives a LOT of good upgrades and is a perfect instruction to 25s for big raids. You can start trying tho, noone says its a bad idea. Void reaver post fix is not so much easymode anymore and he is actually... tought to start on him as 25s now.

As for vortexes... if he used them to get gear upgrades it was worth it but if he just used it to get gold then errr.. then again if he farmed them from heroics himself, its his own right what he does with them.
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Postby Worldie » Sun May 11, 2008 12:51 am

Wait wait, TK is easier than ZA lol.

TK is build for people in tier 4. If you can clear Gruul Lair, you can easily do Void Reaver (well, he's kinda bugged atm) and Solarian.

Go Gruul Lair first anyway.
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Postby Seloei » Sun May 11, 2008 9:36 am

i beg to differ. ZA is just a "retard check" most of the time and the trash can be unforgiving near void reaver. The reason why i said clear za with 2 groups is that way you can take down atleast a'lar and solarion and probably void reaver if you can get people to pay enough attention.
Toughness in my view :

normals -> easy heroics -> bottom kara -> hard heroics -> upper kara -> Heroic mag t -> gruul -> mag -> ssc (first 4) -> za -> tk (first 3) -> last of tk/ssc -> mh -> bt -> swp
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Postby Invisusira » Sun May 11, 2008 10:18 am

If you can only kill the first couple bosses in ZA, TK will destroy you. Not only the content, but the fact that everyone in your guild is used to raiding with only 10 people.

Work on Gruul's.

Kara -> Eagle/Bear -> Gruul/Rest of ZA -> Lurker/Hydross -> VR/Solarian -> Mag -> Rest of SSC/TK
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Postby sweeney » Sun May 11, 2008 10:20 pm

I think if you had two groups running ZA, both of which had downed the four animal bosses, then it might make sense to start directly on TK.

I'd say that a group well organized and prepared to take out a boss in TK could just go down HKM and Gruul in 2-3 attempts, and in fact that's a pretty good way to test whether or not they're ready... so why would you skip it?

As for someone farming gold with badges (which is sort of the least effective way you can possibly do it, but whatever), sure he's an idiot. But squandering your potential upgrades isn't that different from not putting any effort to get upgrades, so why would you punish him? Laugh at him for burning badges on an amount of gold he could have made in a week of dailies, sure.

If, on the other hand, you're thinking "I bust ass to make sure these raids, happen, I'm there on time and prepared, to get my guildmates geared up and ready to progress... oh crap, some of them don't care about progression and I'm doing all this without any recognition of why it matters"... then congratulations, whether you have hit up Gruul's Lair or not, you are experiencing the feeling of being in a newly 25-man raiding guild. :) (I'd actually argue that you being irritated by this is a warning sign that you need to have a beer and make sure burnout doesn't set in, but I don't want to be a pessimist. I'm just saying, I've been in your shoes.)
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Postby Precio » Mon May 12, 2008 4:49 pm

Ok, 1 more question. So...start Gruul's, once we can do all 4 animal bosses with 20 different people. We start TK/SS. I'm correct so far?

Now for the question...:). SSC or TK 1st?

I'm not at all upset by this dumb guildy's actions, I just believe that using his badges for this reason is pure idiocy, AND, not upgrading his gear also causes the guild a minor set back progression-wise.
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Postby Invisusira » Mon May 12, 2008 5:00 pm

Don't judge your progression with 10 mans.

Once you can kill Gruul, start SSC. Perhaps take a field trip to TK and see how you fare against the trash.
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Postby Lookit » Mon May 12, 2008 5:38 pm

Invisusira wrote:Don't judge your progression with 10 mans.

Once you can kill Gruul, start SSC. Perhaps take a field trip to TK and see how you fare against the trash.


I agree. Two groups of 10 that can clear bosses in ZA does not equal a 25-man raid.

Gruul and Mag are there so you have something to cut your teeth on without wiping to trash for 2 hours. Mag is pretty decent these days what with the 40 gold per raid member, the 20-slot bag, and the epic gems. T4 chests are eclipsed these days by badge loot for the most part, but 3 chest tokens isn't bad. Zone in, just a couple easy trash pulls, and you're at the boss. If you guys aren't coordinated enough to down Mag, I know I wouldn't want to spend much time (and repair bill money) in TK.
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Postby Frickit » Mon May 19, 2008 8:35 am

Once we were at the point where killing HKM/Gruul and Mag only took us two and a half hours, then we started going for VR. Doesnt matter if you take down Lurker or VR first. ZA has nothing to do with being able to have a good 25 man except theres awesome gear in there.
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Postby Zolexa » Mon May 19, 2008 12:10 pm

Do Gruul/Mags. Even if you don't stay there long, get a few decent kills in. Build up the 25 man coordination practice.

My guild did it the hard way. After Gruul, we did TK - Alar first. However, after beating our heads there for a bit, once we final downed the bird, VR and Solarian where cake. Then we did SSC (mainly because we didnt have resist gear first). Hydross/Lurker are pretty easy overall. As mentioned, the trash in these places is what catches you unpreparred. We spent our first day in TK mainly learning the trash pulls.

We picked up our Mags kills on offnights doing semi-pugs (guildies friends/family). Other than getting 5 people coordinated enough to click at the right time, he's pretty easy and quick.
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Postby kalbear » Mon May 19, 2008 3:11 pm

Gruul and Mags both test cohesiveness, communication and planning of a raid. These are important things to have, especially as you fight things like HKM. HKM might be an annoying fight, but it's important to be able to coordinate that sort of fight. They all should be easy mode - you way outgear it. But you should do it anyway.

Mags is stupidly easy now, but it's also got good drops and requires some communication.

I'd also move to SSC over TK; better drops and more interesting fights. But that's just me.

The big thing is that your healers need to work on proactive healing, and they just won't get the practice doing that in 10-mans.
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Postby Seloei » Tue May 20, 2008 12:50 am

kalbear wrote:The big thing is that your healers need to work on proactive healing, and they just won't get the practice doing that in 10-mans.


I beg to differ. They won't learn it in kara, yes but they will need it bad in ZA on lynx/bear and on mini-enrage on dragonhawk. If you have healers reactive healing, your dead meat. Hell, even on some of the trash packs you need to time a heal before the mob hits or you may dip too low.

Second half of ZA is as hard as the first half of TK/SSC and it is a very good "retard check" and imho the perfect place where to get the basic aoe avoidance going, anything higher comes from 25's.
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Postby Morpheren » Tue May 20, 2008 8:36 am

Invisusira wrote:Kara -> Eagle/Bear -> Gruul/Rest of ZA -> Lurker/Hydross -> VR/Solarian -> Mag -> Rest of SSC/TK


Sweeney wrote:this is a warning sign that you need to have a beer


I'd get both groups into ZA and at least downing the first two bosses, then move to HKM, as its kinda a coordination check you're gonna need for Al'ar.
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Postby Therem » Fri May 30, 2008 2:01 am

Bit late here, but hey...

I agree that you should do Gruul/Mag first. Mag isn't very hard anymore since the last nerf.

I'd advise to start with SSC, not TK.
VR isn't as easy as before. What's more important, you need to clear a lot of trash to get to VR or Solarian. Al'ar is one of the harder SSC/TK bosses.

So my advise is to go to SSC as soon as you've got Gruul/Mag clear and still have time left in your raiding schedule. Start with Lurker or Hydross (if you got the resistant gear for your tanks).
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