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getting two timed chests with t4 (undergeared) group

Nalorakk, Akil'zon, Jan'alai, Halazzi, Malacrass, Zul'jin

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getting two timed chests with t4 (undergeared) group

Postby kensanity » Fri May 02, 2008 10:17 pm

Hi my character is myrmidantwon (alliance frostwolf). I have a group of friends that I run with and we currently blow through kara. I am aware that za isn't the next step but I truly feels as if our tanks and healers are good enough to sustain aggro on bosses and that our dps is as efficient despite their gear.
We currently are able to down the bear (fight itslef perobaly takes 5 minutes) with a few minutes to spare on the timer.
I have two questions regarding the eagle boss: is it faster to naked run to the top, rez the dead clear down thwe hill thwen take the boss or is it faster to attemp the gauntlet as it was intended to be done? Typical group make up is as follows:
Prot pally
Prot warrior
Healing druid
Healing shaman
Healing pally

Mage
Hunter
Warlock
Warlock
Rogue

And lastly, what the best way to deal with electrical storm? I usually have group stack one me (the tank) when I hear the rain, but this makes debuff damage heavy on the raid. Bettwer alternatives?
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Postby Seloei » Fri May 02, 2008 11:30 pm

Nah, once you safely clear kara without problems you are more than ready for the first 2 bosses in ZA. Hell, with a good makeup and skill you might even get the other 2.

If you run up naked and die/rez you will soon have eagles poaring down the slopes, since the scout activates on "anyone in X area" as far as i know. So your better off with blasting the first 2, then you pull the last 6, the warrior grabs the tempest and holds him there and ranged dps on tempest, melee on windcallers and interupt their heals. Once you feel safe enough call for aoe.
Altho, i wouldnt suggest tanking 6 elites on the first go, burn the first 4 then tank 4, thats safer but might be risking eagle swarms.
Nowadays, i quite often just mount up, pull all 8, they grab the tempest and pop trinkets/get spammed and just aoe the elites down with having a healer targeted since they all heal about the same time and use arcane torrent. Yeah, "bit" suicidal but it shaves off the time to kill 2-6 more elites that come running from the behind.
Oh errr... if you have a priest you can mc the lookout and just buy yourself a minutes window of no eagles/warriors and can get up higher on the gauntlet before you need to pull em all.

As for storms, someone should be calling out the storms about 10 seconds before it comes and when it is less than 5s left everyone should run to the tank. So your group takes a bit more of damage from the shocks but you dont risk wiping due to someone being out of range. After spreading you dont have to go far, just the edge of the plat is almost enough.

First 2 boxes with Kara level gear is very much doable. We managed a 3. chest with most in kara gear/blues and a few badgesl. Its all about how well you think your healers/dps can burn and then pull accordingly.
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Postby Minn » Sat May 03, 2008 5:22 am

Yeah, that sounds like a good composition. My guild does kara and za, and for our timed runs we bring 2 tanks, 3 healers, 5 DPS. With a mix of crafted/kara/pvp/badge gear we do 3 chest runs. For the eagle gauntlet, we put the prot pally in front, kill the elites in pairs, ae clear everything after the third pair, pally grabs the 4th pair, back tank grabs tempest. It sounds like there are faster methods, but it works for us.

Storms? Install Deadly Boss Mods? Collapsing on the tank around 5s before his storm cooldown is up is pretty standard. You can get unlucky and eat some nasty static stacks, but it is better to run that risk than to get everyone zapped.
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Postby Frickit » Sat May 03, 2008 9:19 pm

which order do you kill them for the timed runs? we have bear/eagle timed run down but would like to hit our third and fourth chests next run.

For the Akil'zon if you have someone who is willing to listen for the storm it is sooo much smoother.
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Postby Minn » Sat May 03, 2008 9:24 pm

We started out doing bear -> eagle, but now we do eagle -> bear -> dragonhawk.
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Postby sbeacher » Mon May 05, 2008 1:18 am

Getting a 4th chest seems very very hard since your healers have to be top notch since it seems you can only bring 2 if you want any chance at it.

The fastest we've gotten the third we had 6 minutes left on the timer (which obviously wasn't enough to get to lynx and down him)

But Eagle-Bear-Dragonhawk-Lynx is definitely the best way to go.
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Postby Sithy » Mon May 05, 2008 10:47 am

sbeacher wrote:Getting a 4th chest seems very very hard since your healers have to be top notch since it seems you can only bring 2 if you want any chance at it.

The fastest we've gotten the third we had 6 minutes left on the timer (which obviously wasn't enough to get to lynx and down him)

But Eagle-Bear-Dragonhawk-Lynx is definitely the best way to go.

Everyone needs to be top notch but so far its more skill and knowledge is greater than class balance and group make up. Two healers will help, just as much as 2 shamans will help. All that is useless however if your group doesn't:
1) Know what is going on now
2) Know what is going to happen with pull order, where we're going to move, what pats you're skipping (and when), etc
3) Keep up with the group.

If you're doing eagle, everyone needs to be grouped up, and let the tanks grab the adds. We pull the first three groups and just kill the windwalkers, while the prot pally tanks everything.

If you're skipping pats keep em marked, if they're in your way most times its better to just kill them than is it wait. If you skip a pat make sure everyone stays bunched up or at the very least way far away from the pat range.

Never use CC unless its needed. Last pull on bear trash and double flame caster packs are the only time we worry about CC, even then on double flame caster packs we kill the sheep after the first flame caster is down.

Chain pull, Chain pull, Chain pull. Move fast, if you need to take a break 10 seconds is enough for a pull. With a shadow priest, you're healers need to be good enough to keep near full mana for most of the trash.


I did ZA three times this weekend. (I <3 resets on sunday!)

First run was with my paladin, we just cruised through at a pretty good pace but had a few hiccups so only had about 4 minutes left after we got the third chest.

So we're mainly T5 geared but still with some alts in the raid. Very shaman heavy that helped offset our DPS. Also we ran with 2 prot tanks and 3 healers, which isn't an ideal setup I know.

Group comp:
Prot Warrior - One of our MT's, T5 level gear, beginner T6 stuff.
Prot Pally - Alt, Kara/ZA geared, not as well geared as the Prot warrior.
Shadow Priest - Alt, Kara geared
Warlock - Alt, Kara geared
Mage - T5 Geared
Ehance Shaman - T5 geared, beginning T6 stuff.
Resto Shaman - T5 Geared Resto
Resto Shaman - T5 Geared Resto
Resto Druid - T5 Geared


Second run we decided to try something we hadn't before, and that was run with 2 healers, while we were a little worried at the start we gave it a shot, worst case scenario we don't get 3 chests and bring in a third healer, best case we get (or get close to) 4 chests.

Needless to say I've been playing my pally a lot in ZA and forgot what healing the instance was like, so it took me a few trash pulls of "OH GOD OH GOD" to get back my rhythm. I fat fingered a heal on Eagle that hit a hunter instead of the MT. I only noticed that when said hunter posted a video, she's been playing with fraps, lol. So we lose the MT, Bear picks him up but it took literally twice the time to finish him off. All told we figure we lost around 4 minutes, thats huge in the race for your first bear! Oh well rez up move on, run goes smooth up to and including dragonhawk. We still managed to have 10 minutes on the clock, so we strive for Lynx. The path we took was new to a few people so we ended up having a few deaths that basically killed the run, ran out of time just as we pulled up to Lynx's door.

We're all in full tier 5, or near full tier 5, with most everyone having their tier 6 gloves. The few alts on the other run swapped to mains for this one as we brought in the rest of the people that were online when the first run started just to get everyone geared and stuff.

That group was:
Prot Pally
Feral Druid
Beastmastery Hunter
Shadow Priest
Warlock
Warlock
Mage
Mage
Holy Priest
Holy Paladin

Third group was our best run yet, no real class stacking, just took what we had online (which I guess was kinda stacked... :P). And this time it was literally all my fault that we lost the bear mount.

We're pulling Lynx's room, we have around 6:00 on the clock. Fighting the first 3 pack, prot warrior has the flame caster, I have the other two. The pat (2 mobs) is on its way around. I run down the ramp to catch them in a consecrate. Then as my health starts to fall, the realization hits me that I just lost LoS on my healers. Once I got the pat I should have moved my ass back up the ramp real fast but I didn't, got flattened, and then wipe ensues. :cry: :cry: :cry:

I suppose you could blame the healers but its just as important that I at least inform them to follow me too keep LoS as it is for them to find LoS on me. Oh well, there is always next week. We now know we *can* get a bear, even if we aren't in full tier 6!

The group was:
Prot Warrior
Prot Pally
Shadow Priest
Beast Mastery Hunter
Enhance Shaman
Mage
Warlock
Holy Paladin
Resto Druid
Resto Shaman
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Postby Halisstra » Mon May 05, 2008 3:20 pm

Sithy wrote:I suppose you could blame the healers but its just as important that I at least inform them to follow me too keep LoS as it is for them to find LoS on me. Oh well, there is always next week. We now know we *can* get a bear, even if we aren't in full tier 6!

The group was:
Prot Warrior
Prot Pally
Shadow Priest
Beast Mastery Hunter
Enhance Shaman
Mage
Warlock
Holy Paladin
Resto Druid
Resto Shaman


3 Healers and you managed to get there with 6 minutes on the timer? Do you have a WWS for this by chance? I'm curious the type of numbers your DPS was putting out for that.
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Postby Sithy » Mon May 05, 2008 4:01 pm

I have a log sitting around, I just gotta split it. I have combat logging always on so I have a php script to split it into different days (gotta love WWS hating raids longer than 12 hours!)

The DPSers was essential 5 of our top 10 Raid DPSers, lol.

I'll try and remembe to hit tankadin when I get home and post that link for ya.
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Postby Kellann » Mon May 05, 2008 4:04 pm

Storm timers are pretty bad on boss mods: Turn up your ambient sounds and down the others - the sound of rain means he has 'started casting' the storm.
Kellann - Uther
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Postby Sithy » Mon May 05, 2008 5:28 pm

I would post a log but WWS wont let me (or anyone atm it seems) upload, I'll toss it up when its fixed which I imagine will be tomorrow.
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Postby Seloei » Mon May 05, 2008 11:41 pm

you dont "need" to have only 2 healers. If you can skip some pats and know where to reduce trash time, it is possible.

With the group i run za with (mostly badge/kara geared, no 25's loot except for 3 of us) we have gotten the 3. box with 12 minutes to go. Still a few don't know how to jump the huts good enough and lose time there. The bear box is doable, just need more practice runs there to get everyone knowing what to do without having to say so.

We usually run with 3 healers (sham, priest, pala), 2 elem shammies, mage, boomkin, hunter, prot war+pala usually.

oh btw, don't bother with sheeping the flame caster. MC the first one and tank the other flame caster, dps help to burn the other one and if someone overagros, stun it, taunt the priest when it's almost dead (binding totem helps to slow em).
cc is for times when you are still learning the instance.
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Postby Ariashley » Tue May 06, 2008 2:23 pm

I've done this on timed runs with my rogue and for the first time on my paladin yesterday (not trying for a timed run) with a much lesser geared group. Having not actually been the paladin tank before, it was a little messy. I ran up the ramp about halfway with holy shield up, consecrated with the rest of the group a bit behind me. We kept our druid tank in the back of the group. When everything was on me, we got the windtalker down and I moved about another half (so now 3/4th of the way to the stairs) and picked up the next pair. We killed the windtalker and I got the last pair, we killed the windtalker and I grabbed the tempest. During that time, the other elite mobs died off one-by one to the AOE (we only had 1 mage and 2 hunters with explosive traps for AOE). I had one elite and maybe 4 birds still up when I pulled the tempest and the druid tank had 2 protectors on him. Lost a healer on the run up because I wasn't well placed to pull all of the birds and was a tad slow on Righteous Defense.

Otherwise, given that half the group had never seen it, I was impressed that we made it through the first time without a wipe.

As for the boss himself, we have one person turn on ambient sounds and call for people to run in when the rain noise happens. The timers are really wrong, both bigwigs and DBM, since the storms are like Arichimonde's fear, they have a cooldown, but don't happen at precisely the time indicated. Thus, relying on those timers often results in the raid talking too much damage. They don't need to be standing on the tank. That just run into the middle in a circle around the boss and run back out when the storm passes. Druid tanked him (he has more health than me by about 2k) and I just kept JoW up on the mob all the time to fuel the shadow priest and mage and hunters continuously. I weaved in a few lights toward the end when bird damage was going up.
Ariashala - Level 70 Tankadin
Ariashley - Level 70 Rogue
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