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Blood furnace HC, healer couldnt heal me against two enemies

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Blood furnace HC, healer couldnt heal me against two enemies

Postby Vrimmel » Thu May 01, 2008 6:19 pm

I was in HC Blood furnace today with a group that seemed very nice at first. Gear wise I would say I was the weakest link, but my stats shouldn't be too bad to coplete this.

Group was me, druid healer, mage and two warlocks.

We do the first few mobs, and come to the two guarding the stairs. I pull them and something goes wrong with . So I think that its only two mobs and its better to concecrate and get proper aggro with a group like this since I might have problems with threat than to let the mage resheep.

They hit me a few times - and bam dead. I look at my eavesdrop and I see 2500 damage taken 750 healed as the general picture, Lifebloom rank 2 and occasionally rejuvenation for ~950. I soulstone res and we don't get a complete wipe. The mobs were Laughing skull legionaire and enforcer.

We go on and take a few more mobs. All is okay except our mage is too slow in sheeping a few mobs later. I take on two mobs again. Die, use soulstone and complete wipe is avoided.

We had one more complete wipe shortly after, still doing just two mobs. We decide to stop doing the instance as it will get worse later on.

I do find this a little strange. The healer has very nice gear and I haven't had any problems with two mobs hitting at this strength before.

Here is my armory
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet ... =Instakill

Edit: I just noticed my shield is a bit different in the armory than my instance shield. I use Aegis of the Sunbird with 15 block rating enchant in 5-mans.

so stats are
503 def
dodge 21.5
parry 16.25
block 17.7

And here is the healer
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet ... liciasweet
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Postby Malecandra » Thu May 01, 2008 6:37 pm

It sounds like you have several problems.

1. the mage slow on sheeping.
2. the healer acting like you are full kara equiped (HOTs instead of direct heals).
3. Your HP - they are pretty low.

Early on, druids have a hard time healing paladin tanks - they lack an equivalent of flash heal (regrowth is mana intensive). With your HP, you need slow steady damage that can be predictably healed. Plan on CCing every pull.

I won't run a heroic if the tank has less than 12k hp unbuffed. There just isn't enough of a HP buffer below this.
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Re: Blood furnace HC, healer couldnt heal me against two ene

Postby ldeboer » Thu May 01, 2008 7:35 pm

I have spoken about this instance before when people where talking about it being easy and passive uncrushability you just found out what I meant. It is an easy instance with 16K armour and 14K HP because the pulls are small and easily handled at your stats it will be very hard.

Vrimmel wrote:They hit me a few times - and bam dead. I look at my eavesdrop and I see 2500 damage taken 750 healed as the general picture, Lifebloom rank 2 and occasionally rejuvenation for ~950. I soulstone res and we don't get a complete wipe. The mobs were Laughing skull legionaire and enforcer.


The 2 pulls and there is a 3 later are among the hardest hitting in heroics except for prob the 2 bog lords before 1st boss in H-UB.

Next thing to know is they will and do stun you and all your dodge parry will disappear to nothing its going to come down to straight armour and you have to take about 4-5 seconds of abuse.

You need to always try and stun them with HOJ before they do it to you its like AS, judge seal, HOJ then consecrate

Next a druid healer for you is the worst choice I believe they have only 3 spells 2 HOTS (lifebloom and rejuv) and a big heal thats like a 3 sec cast.
Simply you would be dead before the druid could ever land the big spell.

At your HP prob a priest would be the healer of choice he can shield you, put binding heal on you as a preemptive heal and has reasonable cast length spells.

Finally you are obviously OT'ing kara however I would consider a regem and some gear choices.

You can increase you HP a bit your have +def and dodge gems in get rid of them go with all +12 stam everywhere your not uncrushable ATM anyhow. Put +18 stam on your shield losing the spike.

Your unbuffed HP will then be 12327 your avoidance will drop to 60% but you do maintain your +490def have a play on

http://darksorrow-eu.warcrafter.net/Instakill

Your two rings are pure avoidance no +stam you been in kara even the rep ring has +def and stamina read the stickies under gear on this forum and find better ones.
Edit: sorry 1 has +15 you must have http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29276 at least wear it

For OT on kara you dont have to worry about uncrushable and it will be alot easier to handle heroics with the extra HP.
Last edited by ldeboer on Fri May 02, 2008 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Blood furnace HC, healer couldnt heal me against two ene

Postby Cearn » Fri May 02, 2008 1:07 am

ldeboer wrote:Next a druid healer with no skill for you is the worst choice I believe they have 4 spells 2 HOTS (lifebloom and rejuv) and two cast heals with 2 and 3 sec cast plus Swiftmend and Natures Swiftness.
Simply you would be dead if the Druid sucks.


fixed

You can't blame the class, it's the players. I was healed through heroic Mechanar by a resto friend, me being in green Gear and critable (just to leach the Primal Nether).
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Re: Blood furnace HC, healer couldnt heal me against two ene

Postby ldeboer » Fri May 02, 2008 1:19 am

Cearn wrote:
ldeboer wrote:Next a druid healer with no skill for you is the worst choice I believe they have 4 spells 2 HOTS (lifebloom and rejuv) and two cast heals with 2 and 3 sec cast plus Swiftmend and Natures Swiftness.
Simply you would be dead if the Druid sucks.


fixed

You can't blame the class, it's the players. I was healed through heroic Mechanar by a resto friend, me being in green Gear and critable (just to leach the Primal Nether).


Thanks for correction btw I have nothing against druid healers I think they are best healers in the game but his spec is marginal for this instance.

Plz dont say "You can't blame the class" at no stage did I blame the class or healer I simply said it's not his best choice.

The healer would have to prempt the damage he has 11K HP he is getting hit for 2.5K per hit if he has two targets thats 5K right there. Assume there attack swing is 1.8-2.6 he is going to be taking 10K per lets call it 2.6 seconds.

Whats a normal heal from a druid with average heroic healing 6K-8K thats prob best he can hope for in the 2.6 secs. He is dead before the next heal lands.

I dont blame the healer his spec is marginal these suckers hit very hard his lack of armor and HP is the problem.

Ps: Getting thru mech is a piece of cake with low armor so long as you have someone to interrupt the charged fists H-BF is a total diff story.
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Re: Blood furnace HC, healer couldnt heal me against two ene

Postby Barathorn » Fri May 02, 2008 5:10 am

Cearn wrote:
You can't blame the class, it's the players.


Agreed.

This druid has a pvp spec, is obviously an arena player of average capability and is also probably used for raid healing in PVE. They are probably one of the worst choices you could have made to be a healer for that heroic. At the risk of making a sweeping generalisation, they probably have forgotten what its like to 'honestly' heal a 5 man instance, especially with those in gear not as good as their own.

The OP's Health isn't great and as mentioned, some regemming would help here, as would the advice to stop gemming for socket bonuses. I would suggest an easier heroic such as SP or a better suited group for harder heroics.

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Re: Blood furnace HC, healer couldnt heal me against two ene

Postby Vrimmel » Fri May 02, 2008 6:11 am

ldeboer wrote:
Finally you are obviously OT'ing kara however I would consider a regem and some gear choices.

You can increase you HP a bit your have +def and dodge gems in get rid of them go with all +12 stam everywhere your not uncrushable ATM anyhow. Put +18 stam on your shield losing the spike.

Your unbuffed HP will then be 12327 your avoidance will drop to 60% but you do maintain your +490def have a play on

http://darksorrow-eu.warcrafter.net/Instakill

Your two rings are pure avoidance no +stam you been in kara even the rep ring has +def and stamina read the stickies under gear on this forum and find better ones.
Edit: sorry 1 has +15 you must have http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29276 at least wear it

For OT on kara you dont have to worry about uncrushable and it will be alot easier to handle heroics with the extra HP.


Actually I am uncrushable with buffs. Without any buffs with my other shield I am at 101,42% which is easily boosted with buffs. Should I still regem?

Edit: Just wanted to add that my HP during this was 13500 because of imp and kings.
Last edited by Vrimmel on Fri May 02, 2008 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Cosmoz » Fri May 02, 2008 6:32 am

remember, heroics dont need uncrush. if you are OT in kara, you dont need uncrush. in both cases HP is way better then uncrush.
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Re: Blood furnace HC, healer couldnt heal me against two ene

Postby ldeboer » Sat May 03, 2008 3:04 am

Vrimmel wrote:
Actually I am uncrushable with buffs. Without any buffs with my other shield I am at 101,42% which is easily boosted with buffs. Should I still regem?

Edit: Just wanted to add that my HP during this was 13500 because of imp and kings.


The question we are posing and cosmoz follow up is the same do you need to be uncrushable? You are giving up alot of HP to maintain uncrushable and I get the feeling you dont need it.

Pure HP wont fix your prob in H-BF your 11K armor is just very low for these guys that hit like trucks.

There was a thread running about making a passive uncrushable out of non raid gear and you just proved my comment I said passively uncrushable was a toy and wouldn't even get up the stairs in H-BF so some good came from your misery :)

Seriously leave this instance alone for now or at least come with a class that can shield you just get your badges and drops from kara and H-SP, H_mech etc your armour will be there soon enuf and this place will seem easy cause the pulls are very simple.
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Postby Minn » Sat May 03, 2008 4:58 am

In a group like that you might want to ask one of the warlocks to toss Curse of Weakness on the mobs, especially if 2 are going to beat on you at once. (CoW? WTF?) Seriously though, an AP debuff can make a big difference, especially when you're forced to eat 2-4 hits while stunned. I agree on the "Stun them first" tip too, wait for one or two hits, stun one, and hopefully you'll break up the damage to make things easier on your healer.
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Postby Karnadas » Sun May 04, 2008 10:24 pm

the other day i was healed through mech by a druid.

the kicker? the druid was balance. (pulled out the trees on several pulls)


normally sheeped 1 guy each pull, but normally i'd let 2 or three beat on me at a time. at the time i was in a mix of kara/crafted/boe gear and it went smoothly.

as far as you go, just make sure you're doing your part by keeping mobs on you but having the stats to stay along live enough to recieve heals
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Postby MichaelBerea » Tue May 06, 2008 9:25 pm

I had problems in HBF similar to the original poster. I had 14.5k health and armor. My healer was a resto druid with a pvp spec. He wore mostly blues. Still, I had seen him heal skillfully a number of times.

Druids *need* a maxed out spec and solid gear to heal HBF. As others have said HSP, HMech or Reg BM would be good choices depending on party composition.

An offtank and a mage help a lot in HSP at pre-Karazhan gear levels.

HMech is easier with a rogue, warrior or shaman for interrupts. A highly skilled warlock or two make it even easier. Add a shadow priest for a speed run (huge help if healer is in blues and you do not skip 3rd boss).

Reg BM requires smart, quick-thinking dps with decent gear. By far the easiest run I had before I got Karazhan gear was built around 3 paladins (prot, ret & holy).
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Postby Seloei » Wed May 07, 2008 4:36 am

Face it, heroic bf mobs hit like trucks. Don't try to aoe tank it unless you are already atleast kara geared.
Did it a few days ago and with a t5/6 healer i still dipped down to 20% quite often, was at ~18-9k buffed health and 18k armor on some of the 2 packs. The burst damage and high hits there need atleast some form of CC, either your HoJ stun or a sheep/seduce/sap/trap.
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Postby Lowgrus » Fri May 16, 2008 4:51 am

The mobs in there hit harder than any other heroic as far as I know save those damn casters in Heric MgT. Even in Kara gear I had an issue with doing it without CC.

If your going for the boots out of there for your tanking set just bring two mages, and take it slow and steady. I did that till I got my boots and didn't set foot in there till after I had 16k hp unbuffed. I hate tanking with CC.

Shattered hallz is easier than that place.

Its not you its the instance, even a paladin healer or a priest would have an issue keeping you up.
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Postby Sarutankah » Sat May 24, 2008 3:28 pm

Lol - and there I go running my first heroic... BF :lol:


It's not that I got hit... it's that my blocks only stopped 100 damage :D


I will revisit when I have more than 14k hp unbuffed.

Back to shattered halls normal after that so I could feel op again :)
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