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Kara Mayhem

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Should I be pissed or just shrug it off?

Poll ended at Mon May 05, 2008 4:31 pm

Yes, they're a-holes! :)
10
33%
No, get over it.
20
67%
 
Total votes : 30

Kara Mayhem

Postby Precio » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:31 pm

I just joined a guild. I was getting ready to sign up for raid, but there were too many tanks. I'm the best geared tank in the guild (we just started Gruul's so stop your laughing.) and I couldn't tank Kara because the slots were full. So I was asked to respec Ret. I don't have the Pocketwatch yet and neither did the other tanks. The two tanks rolled, as did I. I just rolled incase they wanted me to have. The Guild Leader gave it to the war (#3 tank in the guild) because it would benefit them more than the druid having. I wasn't even mentioned. The guild knows I cannot successfully run all of ZA, yet they gave the warrior, who has worse gear than me the Pocketwatch. Should I be pissed or just hope it drops again?(which it never freaking will)

P.S. - The T4 helm dropped. The 2 Shammies that needed it and ME rolled. I won. But the Guild Leader said "I never said to roll." So we had to reroll, and I lost. EVEN THOUGH, we ALL rolled and I won fair and square. WTF is that?
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Postby etherbadger » Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:11 pm

Who won the roll for the pocketwatch?

IMO you roll for gear on whatever spec you are playing that instant, at least in kara/za gear up guild runs. As for the t4 helm; it sucks. Level engineering to 350.

Look at it from the guild's point of view. It's better to have 3 tanks in medium gear than 1 tank fully geared and 2 undergeared. If you get every tank drop first, how long are you going to want to keep doing kara? You can say you'd take the high road and keep tanking it forever but it does get old, especially after ever rogue/hunter has a kings defender and every mage has a stranglestaff.
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Postby inthedrops » Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:12 pm

Get over it. Not to be mean, but people (myself included) are really good at coming up with reasons why we should get loot more than someone else. It's just not a healthy thing to do in the long run. Be happy it dropped and hope that next time you get it.

And yes, I know how it feels so I am sympathetic.
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Postby Precio » Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:27 pm

etherbadger wrote:As for the t4 helm; it sucks. Level engineering to 350.


Lol, look at my sig silly. Engineering 363. I'm just too damn poor. (Saving up for 2 Nether Vortexes. (Belt of the Guardian)

On the other hand, I understand what your saying, and I can agree with your comments. We need a good pool of geared tanks. Appreciate the feedback, and wish me luck that the pocketwatch drops someday. :)
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Re: Kara Mayhem

Postby Lookit » Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:27 pm

Precio wrote:I just joined a guild. I was getting ready to sign up for raid, but there were too many tanks. I'm the best geared tank in the guild (we just started Gruul's so stop your laughing.) and I couldn't tank Kara because the slots were full.


So the other tanks signed up ahead of you, and you are pissy because they didn't get bumped so you could tank? I think it would have been less fair if the other tanks who already signed up had been benched for you.

You didn't mention who won the roll on the pocketwatch. Whoever won the roll, won the item. If you won and didn't get it, I'd be pissed. If you didn't win the roll, I would shut the hell up about it.

As for the helm, if the master looter hasn't called out for rolls, no rolls count.

There is also the matter of you being new to the guild. If these other tanks have been slogging though Kara week after week for a while now, wiping and learning, do you really think they want to hand the first Pocketwatch to the new guy on his first run, who's not even tanking?

Get over it, and ditch the idea that you deserve loot any more than anyone else in the run.
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Postby Precio » Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:43 pm

I won the roll pocketwatch, but wasn't planning on getting because i was a DPSer. (And I let the tanks know, that was just my roll if they allowed me to roll for it.) The funny thing was, the warrior lost the roll to the druid OT. But the GLeader said it would be more beneficial if the war got it. So the druid got screwed Majorly.
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It's common guild breakup problem

Postby ldeboer » Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:16 pm

I would strongly suggest you talk to guild leader and sort guild loot rules out as it is the number one source of guild drama's.

It will get even more complex as you get alt's involved in kara runs.

We set simple rules that seem to work

1.) You can only role on what you are in there as DPS, Tank, Heals
2.) Mains before Alts
3.) Off spec's if neither above
4.) Those eligible may defer to a member who would greatly benefit
5.) It becomes a shard to be rolled

On the above basis you would have been eliminated from rolling by case 1
you were in as DPS not a tank. The druid would have got the item only he could decide if he would defer to the second tank.

So my suggestion is talk to GLeader and sort loot rules now because this is just the first of many such cases that will and do occur.
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Postby uke » Thu May 01, 2008 7:15 am

Precio wrote:
etherbadger wrote:As for the t4 helm; it sucks. Level engineering to 350.


Lol, look at my sig silly. Engineering 363. I'm just too damn poor. (Saving up for 2 Nether Vortexes. (Belt of the Guardian)


Make the helm your top priority. It's just THAT good. And then you can start farming gas clouds in outland for more cash.
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Postby Loganb1104 » Thu May 01, 2008 8:21 am

One of the toughest pills to swallow about joining a new guild is being at the bottom of the loot totem pole for the foreseeable future. It sucks, and you'll probably see loot distribution practices that you're unfamiliar/uncomfortable with, but eventually it'll all work out.

Keep in mind that from a GM or raid leader's point of view, you're new and still have to prove yourself. Just because you've got the best gear doesn't mean that you're actually the guild's best tank, or that you won't just grab loot and leave for a more progressed guild. I'm in no way suggesting that you're one of "those guys," but I've certainly seen my fair share of them come and go.

Give it time, get used to your guild's loot procedures, and prove to them that you deserve good loot. If you're a good, valuable player they'll eventually see that, and the raid leader won't think twice before he goes "oh damn, the pocketwatch dropped... give that bad boy to Precio nao!"
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Postby Loganb1104 » Thu May 01, 2008 8:28 am

For some of the people who have responded, do you really feel that it's a good idea to prioritize main spec BELOW current spec when distributing loot? If I'm asked to respec holy because we're short a healer and the pocketwatch finally drops on the one run out of ten that I'm not tanking, I'll be pissed if I'm not allowed to have a shot at it.

If you have a player that usually raids as one spec for your guild, it only makes sense to want that player to constantly improve his gear for that spec. If he is prohibited from doing so, the raid as a whole suffers.
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Postby inthedrops » Thu May 01, 2008 8:50 am

Loganb1104 wrote:For some of the people who have responded, do you really feel that it's a good idea to prioritize main spec BELOW current spec when distributing loot? If I'm asked to respec holy because we're short a healer and the pocketwatch finally drops on the one run out of ten that I'm not tanking, I'll be pissed if I'm not allowed to have a shot at it.

If you have a player that usually raids as one spec for your guild, it only makes sense to want that player to constantly improve his gear for that spec. If he is prohibited from doing so, the raid as a whole suffers.


It makes sense in the big picture, especially for pugs, but I usuallyhate that rule because I'm the guy not playing my main spec. I often heal in pugs but my main spec is a tank. The point behind the rule is to prevent greedy loot whores. For example, in ZA the healing shield has dropped twice for me and once when I was a main healer. I let the other healing paladin have it even though it was a huge upgrade for me. This other paladin always heals. That's why the rule exists. It just sucks for those of us that are in a run doing a role that is not how we are normally specced. Imagine if you were tanking and the tank shield dropped but the "always holy" paladin rolled because they are "working on a tank set". That would annoy you right?
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Postby Kelaan » Thu May 01, 2008 8:59 am

uke wrote:Make the helm your top priority. It's just THAT good. And then you can start farming gas clouds in outland for more cash.


Agreed. The cost of making the helm is not excessive (... HAHHA... okay yes it is, but it's worth it). I've now leveled engineering twice for those helms. :( Still, all told, the cost to build the engineering helm is minimal. Especially since the only competitor is from ZA, which you say you can't do yet. I'll gladly take T5ish gear before I'm done (started?) with T4.

Belt of the Guardian is awesome too, don't get me wrong ... but the helm is some excellent avoidance and stamina. Especially since there's a badge belt which is also a good piece. (I know, they're different niche-pieces. Still, good stuff.)
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Postby turion350 » Thu May 01, 2008 9:09 am

I agree with Logan, if for some reason a Tankadin threw on healing gear, and he is mostly main tank, just so the raid could work, he should have a shot at the watch. Especially if he has been farming for it, and sacrificed himself to a respec in the best interest of the raid. This almost penalizes him, and not give him any motivation to go outside his main spec.

Now someone wanting to roll on something for an offspec when the main spec's are still gearing, that should be just understood under the.."i have common sense" rule.

To the op, I can see them not letting you tank, if the others already signed up, that is what is fair, even if you are better geared. And in addition to not letting you roll, you are still new to guild and they might not feel that they can trust you to not bail out yet, and it would be in their better interest to give the tanks they know are going to be there for them the roll. In addition to what someone else said, you need to let others have gear if they are way below, no sense in having an ubber tank, and 2 crappy geared tanks when all 3 could be sitting in a good spot.

And yes, get the engineering helm, much better than the T4 token. I would upgrade that helm over waiting out for the belt of the guardian. You can get a badge reward belt that will tide you over till you can get the crafted one.
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Postby Kracus » Thu May 01, 2008 9:17 am

Loganb1104 wrote:For some of the people who have responded, do you really feel that it's a good idea to prioritize main spec BELOW current spec when distributing loot? If I'm asked to respec holy because we're short a healer and the pocketwatch finally drops on the one run out of ten that I'm not tanking, I'll be pissed if I'm not allowed to have a shot at it.

If you have a player that usually raids as one spec for your guild, it only makes sense to want that player to constantly improve his gear for that spec. If he is prohibited from doing so, the raid as a whole suffers.


Our guild does main spec priority. I don't see the point in gearing for current/offspec for random night, in this case, kara.

I agree with paper though, just have to let it go. Loot is loot and if you let that be your focus then why are you playing? I don't agree with the decision they made at all though. In this case, if your main tank that you are always going to go to for progression is there and an item drops - not even considering them is just balls to me. Doesn't make sense.

With you being new however, I can understand maybe the t4 drop but the tanking trinket....it is a sticky issue if they did bring you in to be their MT. Cause that thing is a rarity imo, 3 toons now with only one a few short of exalted and I've only seen that trinket once, MAYBE twice.
Last edited by Kracus on Thu May 01, 2008 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Loganb1104 » Thu May 01, 2008 9:20 am

inthedrops wrote:Imagine if you were tanking and the tank shield dropped but the "always holy" paladin rolled because they are "working on a tank set". That would annoy you right?


I think you missed my point. Main specs > off specs on a guild run. Hence, the "always holy" paladin wouldn't be rolling on the tank shield unless the main tanks in the group didn't want it.

I was also assuming that we were talking about guild runs in the first place. PuGs are their own case, and people are basically on their honor to roll for what most benefits them. The "current spec having priority" thing wouldn't fly for me in a PuG. Example: my pally got into a gruul PuG the other night, but only because they needed healers. I made it clear that my main spec is prot and that I wanted to roll on ALD if it dropped... I also made it clear that I'd pass healing gear to main spec healers. If they hadn't agreed to this I wouldn't have done the run.

Sometimes the only way to get good main spec gear is to respec every now and then. Experienced players know and understand this.
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