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Eredar Twins

Kalecgos, Brutallus, Felmyst, M'uru, Entropius, Kil'jaeden

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Postby Worldie » Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:45 pm

Well i don't really see a druid tank possible or at least desiderable, being chaincrushed won't really be good for the health of the healers...
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby fiorina » Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:54 pm

Worldie wrote:Well i don't really see a druid tank possible or at least desiderable, being chaincrushed won't really be good for the health of the healers...


It's worse combo than pala+warr, but it's not that bad. Compare

Me: http://wowwebstats.com/jx2yjhwqczqbq?s=4119-4465&a=32
Random druids: http://wowwebstats.com/iswojtmf1lnmy?s=2826-2973&a=29 http://wowwebstats.com/tbt2plkynragu?s=11682-11987&a=29 (duh, names)

you can do more research guys http://wowwebstats.com/?fight=4728 (look for attempts close to 6mil HP)
I am sleepy ZzzZ
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Postby Worldie » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:51 pm

According to your WWS, najentus crushed you harder than the twin ;)
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Lucit » Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:02 am

Worldie wrote:According to your WWS, najentus crushed you harder than the twin ;)


4-5k ish = offhand crushes. MH crush can be 10-11k.
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Postby Worldie » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:59 am

Details, worthless details
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Lore » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:35 am

Druids have been tanking through crushing blows since Karazhan, it's not really a big deal. A crush on a Druid is significantly less than a crush on a Paladin or Warrior.

We did Paladin+Druid the other night and had our best attempts yet.
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Postby areyla » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:39 am

Kind of stuck in a situation where I can't access armory/WoW links.

What would you wear over Insignia, fiorina?

I'm trying to achieve 127.4%, or 123-124% since scorpid allows buffer.
I have at the moment: Faceplate, Barbed Choker of Disc., Abyssal Fury Pauldrons, t6 ( glove, chest, wrist), Kalec legs, Mighty Resolve, Slikk's, Tide-Stomper's, Kaz'goral's heart; Commendation/Insignia/Furies Deck.

When I checked my avoidance it was about 117% w/o Block Libram and only 3/5 anticipation. I hope to get a Kael Neck soon, and I was wondering if it were advisable to get T6 shoulders and perhaps an Unbreakable Will w/ spell dmg like you?
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Postby Io.Draco » Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:12 am

A important thing to note is that with scorpid sting up from a hunter , and a grace of air from a shaman will give you 8% more avoidance so basicly you need 119.4% to get uncrushable , for me if I switch my hyjal ring with TK one and my comedation with moroes I get uncrushable
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Postby Morganim » Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:38 am

Im trying to get as close to 127.4% based on pure gear alone. I dont think im likely to get GoA (our raid leaders never give tank group shaman no matter how many times we ask we just get dumped with the spare holy paladin >.>)

Atm ive been able to get different values between 119-122%

Atm i have faceplate + 5/8 t6 + bulwark.
I think i will use moroes + commendation for trinkets
the old TK ring + my morogrim ring for max uncrusbility from rings.

After this its all guesswork for me though, i dont have a SMI, none so far lol.

What i was thinking was to go back to TK and grab the kael neck and use that over my RoS one, If i tell guild it will help on twins i dont think they'd care doing it quickly on an offnight considering we dont need to kill the 3 trash bosses.

Also idealy id grab the felmyst shield as im sure our MT would pass to me if i asked nicely enough, with that and the kael neck i shoudl be over 123% + scorpid sting = win.

I have a suneater i can enchant with +40 spell damage for another 2% but id rather not use it, i cant use the sword from anethron as we have had 0 drop lol
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Postby fiorina » Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:45 am

areyla wrote:Kind of stuck in a situation where I can't access armory/WoW links.

What would you wear over Insignia, fiorina?

I'm trying to achieve 127.4%, or 123-124% since scorpid allows buffer.
I have at the moment: Faceplate, Barbed Choker of Disc., Abyssal Fury Pauldrons, t6 ( glove, chest, wrist), Kalec legs, Mighty Resolve, Slikk's, Tide-Stomper's, Kaz'goral's heart; Commendation/Insignia/Furies Deck.

When I checked my avoidance it was about 117% w/o Block Libram and only 3/5 anticipation. I hope to get a Kael Neck soon, and I was wondering if it were advisable to get T6 shoulders and perhaps an Unbreakable Will w/ spell dmg like you?


I wear moroes trinket. I activate it when my healers are stunned in phase 1 or in any generic SNAFU situation. Regarding UW, depends on your threat, try it, you can always swap it midfight. I tend to wear ToC with Mongoose lately - You can relax with threat and focus on positioning etc.

I also have block rating enchant on shield. There is really nice ring from ZA timed event...
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Postby Splug » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:22 am

Hrm... so the way I understand it, only one of them can crush, and most strategies involve offtanking her for the first half of the fight, correct?

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Postby Neuron » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:16 am

Splug wrote:Hrm... so the way I understand it, only one of them can crush, and most strategies involve offtanking her for the first half of the fight, correct?

-Splug


The shadow mob crushes. The shadow mob can also cast Confounding Blow that confuses current target (the tank) for 6 seconds. During that time the shadow mob will attack 2nd on aggro, and I witnessed one or two times where she would actually continue to attack the counfounded tank once or twice (and two shot him). Hence the need for an offtank. You can ds out of confounding blow attack (not trinket) but its cast several times during the fight so you need an offtank.

The second thing is that the fire boss can cast Conflagration on the current target of the shadow boss (the current tank) or on the offtank. So the current tank can lose aggro at any point while conflagged (a 3 second cast that also dazes you). Threat is not lost however, only aggro.

Conflag can also happen to the offtank, even at the same time as confounding blow on the main tank, leading to the quick death of 3rd on the threat list. This can be partly prevented by positioning so that conflag or counfounding blow wear off before the bosses gets into position to attack the 3rd person.

I originally thought this is where taunt would be used, but it turns out from experience that the shadow boss is immune to taunt. This means that in order to have her attack the offtank, the offtank needs to be 2nd on threat. So DPS is threatcapped by the offtanks aggro, who is in turn threatcapped by the main tanks aggro.

Rather than use pvp trinket (which really puts a hurt on your chances at uncrushability) I would suggest devising a strat to counter the different confounding blow and conflag scenarios. You can try and make sure tanks never get conflag, but this is tricky, as who gets conflag is only at a theorycraft stage (at least for my guild). You can try 3 tanks. You can try having whoever is likely to be 3rd on aggro be really far away. Its pretty easy to be in a position where it takes more than 6 seconds for the shadow boss to reach you, but this is extremely dependent upon which strategy you are using, which one you are killing first, where people are standing, etc.
Last edited by Neuron on Tue May 13, 2008 7:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby fiorina » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:56 am

If offtank is about to get conflagration, he just run away. If main tank will eat confounding blow in meantime and confla debuff is not yet expired and mob is going to kill someone(he could run for a long time) then offtank will use insignia or bubble.

Second tank is not threatcapped by 1st tank. You can have second tank just for offtanking in case he can't catch up with threat.
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Postby Mithos » Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:10 pm

Well, I got T6 belt a few days ago and I found I can actually quite easily get to ~125% buffed without shaman totem, which would be fine. Before hand I think I vastly underestimated some of the recent upgrades I've got.

And

Edit: Gear I'm using in this set is:

Normal goggles, Pendant of Titans, T6 shoulders/chest/belt/bracers/gloves, Phoenix Wing cape, Tempest of Chaos, Kazrogals, Libram of Repentance, Judicators Legguards (kalec), Myrmidons treads, new badge ring, TK trash ring, SM insignia and Styleen's Impending Scarab (FTW!)

Puts me at 16737 HP unbuffed, is that enough?
Last edited by Mithos on Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Splug » Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:12 pm

Ok, I had heard Sacrolash being the second kill target was a much easier kill order due to the offtank threatcapping scenario. Though making #3 threat on her something other than a healer is probably not a horrible idea either, for the case which you just described.

Assuming you kill Sacrolash second, and use a paladin MT/warrior_or_feral OT on her (and maybe have a warlock throw some searing pains at her before running off to Alythess), it sounds like you would have a lot of time available to generate threat before damage gets to Sacrolash. Even with the dual threatcap issue, tanks would have a fair lead on threat. I suppose that explains why everyone keeps talking about getting mongoose or agi enchants on a suneater and using it for her.

If threat is almost a non-issue though, I don't see how hitting uncrushable in Sunwell comes as such a difficult target. It does dent the max health a bit, mostly due to almost requiring dual avoidance trinkets. It also results in a bit of an unorthodox defense level, but it seems to me that a gearset similar to the one I was using in BT to be passively crush-immune would give paladins the same crushing reduction in Sunwell while Holy Shield is active. +30% from HS, -25% for being in sunwell, -5% for not having shield spec. The cornerstone point behind the gear I was using was that defense gives more avoidance than an equal level of block rating + dodge rating, and thus overkilling 490 defense not being a huge problem. The only real gap I'd see is between the stats on warrior t6 and paladin t6 as compared to the block rating libram versus the gorefiend gun, which I admit I haven't looked into. Even then, the gear from the first three bosses in sunwell should compensate for that...

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