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Seal of Vengeance?

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Seal of Vengeance?

Postby Trynian » Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:54 am

I was running Arcatraz the other night, and the paladin I was with mentioned that as a tank he loves to use SoV on mobs that take a nontrivial amount of time to kill. He starts off with SoR to get an immediate lead, of course, but he then switches to SoV, because he believes it deals more damage in the long run.

Does anyone else have any experience with this seal? Up until that point I had just been ignoring it as unreliable, but we've got some DPSers in our guild that I have a really hard time keeping up with threat-wise, so I want to make sure I'm using the best tool at all times.
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Postby Sabindeus » Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:09 am

You can use it if you're fighting a mob that takes a while to kill (as you mentioned) and is Level 70-71(maybe), as opposed to most boss mobs, which are L73. If you use it on a higher level mob than yourself, the risk of the stack falling off increases dramatically. There aren't many L70 mobs that take a while to kill. So it's fairly useless.
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Postby Trynian » Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:12 am

Another question: what do folks find Seal of Vengeance useful for? Soloing?
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Postby Leidus » Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:47 am

Trynian wrote:Another question: what do folks find Seal of Vengeance useful for? Soloing?


I find it's best kept in my spell book and not wasting a spot on my toolbar. ;)
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Postby Reiyuka » Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:58 am

Trynian wrote:Another question: what do folks find Seal of Vengeance useful for? Soloing?


On mobs that last more than about 40 seconds, and with a slow one-hander, I'll use Vengeance. Bosses too. If you can deal with occasionally losing your stack on level 73 mobs, Vengeance is higher and more consistent TPS when you have lower spell damage. Righteousness has a higher coefficient, though.
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Postby jere » Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:44 am

Despite what lots of people will tell you about it being unreliable and not useful, I have found it to be very useful. Here is a parse of my last prince kill that lasted a little over 5 mins and I lost the stack only a few times and one time was actually on purpose (against a lvl 73 boss mob no less).

Granted on an average prince fight I will lose the stack 2-3 times that I don't intend to, but has NEVER caused a threat problem yet.

For reference: http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=hi ... =2&s=0-326

I am not saying you have to use SoV to be a great tank or that it is uber compared to SoR. I have found both work well enough, but in my experience SoV works better on some bosses for me that SoR.

I guess my point is don't let the naysayers tell you it is crap. Try it out some and see what you like or don't like about it. If you find you feel safer with SoR, then great...use that. If you find SoV safe enough, and you like the damage/threat increase, go for it.
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Postby Trynian » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:36 pm

Another question, and this one is a boot more n00bish than the others: what is the general Best Strategy for judging SoV? Whenever it comes up, a la SoR? Whenever you get the max stack?
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Postby jere » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:56 pm

Trynian wrote:Another question, and this one is a boot more n00bish than the others: what is the general Best Strategy for judging SoV? Whenever it comes up, a la SoR? Whenever you get the max stack?


At 3 stacks my JoV does about the same damage as JoR in my tanking gear, so if it is 3 or higher, I judge JoV. If I am at less than 3, I judge righteousness, however, I am almost always at 3+ stacks by the time my judgement cooldown is ready
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Postby Daedallus » Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:35 pm

its crap =P
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Postby matchbox » Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:24 pm

SoV rocks for tanking void reaver, or any boss that you dont get knocked back from like gruul or i forgot most of them i just got up but gruul is a good example
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Postby Nich » Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:39 pm

matchbox wrote:SoV rocks for tanking void reaver, or any boss that you dont get knocked back from like gruul or i forgot most of them i just got up but gruul is a good example

I'd have thought SoV would be better for knockbacks, because you still get threat ticking away while you're unable to hit it.
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Postby jere » Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:54 pm

Nich wrote:
matchbox wrote:SoV rocks for tanking void reaver, or any boss that you dont get knocked back from like gruul or i forgot most of them i just got up but gruul is a good example

I'd have thought SoV would be better for knockbacks, because you still get threat ticking away while you're unable to hit it.


It depends on the fight. I use this technique on Gruul so that when I get knocked back by the ground slam / shatter, the moment I come out, the next SoV tick sends him running back to me. It's pretty nice.

A lot of it depends on how often you get knocked back too. If knockbacks happen every 1 min or longer, SoV is fine to use without much worry. If they happen often, you are better off using SoR.
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Postby Trevize » Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:35 pm

I keep trying to make SoV useful when I tank but in the end I go with reliability, consistency, and predictability which is what tanking is all about. SoR is that.

Sure SoV can produce more threat if you can keep 5 stacks up all the time but when it doesn't proc at all you will lose aggro. In many cases that equals a wipe. On these intricate boss encounters why risk that at all? There are already enough ways for your raid to wipe, why add another one unnecessarily?

Keep in mind your dps is also relying on consistent threat from their tank. If you tank on a regular basis they are very familiar with your threat. So you want to keep it very very consistent to allow them to max out their dmg.

All in all....SoV is too unpredictable for me to tank with.
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Postby Nich » Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:28 pm

TBH, I like SoV a lot for bosses. Especially when you line up every cooldown to be usable with AW, for stupid JoV hits/crits, for stuff like VR or Curator's evocates.

I actually use SoR for the most part tho': between reckoning and wf procs (even when they do overlap and get wasted), it's hard to beat the extra consistant threat that SoR gives.
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Postby Phaex » Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:53 pm

SoV is fine for low spelldam tankadins. You can produce a ton of threat with it.
Almost REQUIRES Weapon Exp+Precision tho. With these 2 talents there is no "falling off" anymore.

I usually mix some SoR autohits between the JoV for even more threat.
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