Damage expectations - Rule of thumb

[Levantine]

Season 1 and 2 in any slot except the weapon slot makes me cringe.

I make a point of letting the tank know (there are only 5 tanks I will run with without other guildies in the group, 2 Druids, 2 Paladins and 1 Warrior) if there are BG scrubs in the group and to be careul with them.

I'm not geared enough to do more than throw the occasional Renew, Flash Heal or Binding Heal to a DPS that's fucking around.

Hell, I trust bad healers more than bad DPS, if need be I'll pump out 5-600 dps spamming smite.

[inthedrops]

For the record, I have a spell damage gem in my T5 pants along with the runic spellthread. Makes for a great set of threat leggings.

Also, if you're running heroics and outgear the place there's no reason to have high avoidance. I run them with nearly 700 spell damage, just enough defense to not be crit, and maybe 45% total avoidance. That much spell damage isn't necessary, but it sure makes it fun.

Never say never

On that note, I tend to agree that talent point choices and gem selection/enchants are REALLY good indicators. You can't judge someone on their actual gear. And I don't mean that they used blue/epic gems. I just mean that even if the gems are green quality they are appropriate.

I don't know about gem choices for every class but one thing I've learned from having three level 70's is that if someone has gemmed for the socket bonus on every item in their inventory that they probably aren't too knowledgeable about the best choice of gems. I'm sure there are cases where that's not correct. But if you see those dreaded spell penetration gems just to get a socket bonus...well..../kick

[Robin de tolens]

I think you can always (except for tanks) benefit from the socket bonus.
I always, on my Warlock and Priest, gem for socket bonus : I don't lose anything by doing that : I don't have to 'stack' some attribute, I must do a mix-up of everything to be effective (like mixing heal and mp5 or heal and spirit ; mixing spell damage ans spell hit, etc...).

[Flex]

Any logical way you gem http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28179, a quest reward from SL nonheroic, you'll attain more spell dmg than http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28670. And you're unlikely to get keyed for Karazhan without doing that quest. But that's a tangent, I think there's just certain pieces that really drive me crazy seeing people wear. I agree with you on pure spell dmg gems in paladins.

You know, with Arcane Meditation and Mage Armor Mages get some nice regen from Spirit.

[ldeboer]

If you're in a heroic, and there is ANYONE who is supposed to be DPS being out DPSed by you, boot them. They should be in a regular instance and not bumming badges off of other people.

quote]

idk about that, go aoe tank heroic SP UB and such and you will be right there with the dps (above them by a fair bit if they have no aoe)

Agreed in H-UB and H-Bot in particular because I run no CC at all I am usually 2nd on the table behind the mage.

[Delphineas]

Can feral druids ever outDPS a Pally tank in Shattered Halls, period?
Just seems that to kick a single target DPS in a place that clearly favors us is silly. Remedied by bringing AOE, but still.

[Nobot]

Can feral druids ever outDPS a Pally tank in Shattered Halls, period?
Just seems that to kick a single target DPS in a place that clearly favors us is silly. Remedied by bringing AOE, but still.

IMO, the value of a strong single-target melee class in ANY dungeon run with a prot paladin is to burn down the high-risk targets while AoE does the AoE thing.

Case in point, there are mobs in SH that stun and some that scatter shot. When I don't want to use CC, those mobs need to die ASAP, but AoE isn't ideal for fast kills. This is why I try to being a strong single-target DPS to my runs.

Sure, I'll end up out-DPS'ing a feral druid during a SH run, but the only reason I *could* out-DPS him is because I didn't get stunned or scatter shot.

Just some food for thought. You don't always have to run SH with an AoE group comp

[Flex]

Single target DPS should still out DPS you, they'll have much less total damage done though.

[Nottebella]

Any DPS is good enough DPS in a heroic really. I'll commonly bring resto/prot specced people as dps just because they were available and wanted to come. All DPS needs to be is not stupid, whether that means they kill the skull first, cc the right mob, or don't face pull. Beyond that, whether they are in greens or epics isn't going to make that much difference in an hour long heroic. Now when it comes to a healer... find a good one and nurture that relationship like you would with a rich dying aunt.