Leotherass Demon phase tanking

Hydross, Lurker, Leotheras, Fathom-Lord, Tidewalker, Vashj

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Postby ehly » Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:23 am

I think it would be possible, but just letting a lock do it is fine as well. In truth I wouldn't recommend or suggest it; as after the 15% split this will cause all of his aoe fire to land on you, and most likely all your melee.

There have been times at the 15% split I have gotten both, and the warlock hasn't been able to get it off me. So I think it is possible, but as I don't bring FR I usually die in that case after the debuff stacks up high. I think the longest I had both was about 15%->5%.
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Postby Tinkerbéll » Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:02 am

Since none of our lock tanks was present yesterday, I tanked Demon form while 2 other tanks tanked Human Form.

To our suprise did it work better then with a lock tank. I was able to get agro much faster and healing on me was easier as well.
The 15% split was no problem as well, since I was able to bubble out of the debuffs I still had on me.
If you bring Leotheras into a good position before the split there is no problem with the aoe around you.

Threat was not an issue. We even had a T6 rogue with us (we are just at the end of SSC and TK) and he had not to feint or hold back.

The positioning of the melees is not a problem. As long as you stand at max melee range, they only need to stay at the back. Not even at max melee range.

And since Leo does not hit hard you can still use frisbee on Human form to help picking him up. Exorcism and SoR are enough to pick him up in Demon Phase anyway.

My gear for this fight: 295FR unbuffed, a bit more then 14k HP unbuffed, 416 spelldamage unbuffed. I'm crittable and crushable in this gear set.
I used Flask of Fortification, 30stam buff food and Wizard Oil.
Group Setup: Retri Pally, Resto Shaman, Shadow Priest and Warlock.

So in short: if you have the gear try it! It's fun and the dps is better as well, since the lock can use his normal dps gear :)
Last edited by Tinkerbéll on Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Korbah » Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:56 am

Do you mind posting the gear you had?
I had trouble keeping aggro with this setup: http://www.chardev.org/?template=38439.
Do you recommend me getting more spelldamage instead of stacking stamina so much?
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Postby Tinkerbéll » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:26 am

Here is my Leo tank set:

http://www.warcrafter.net/sandbox/48955

I only had 13.6k HP I just saw (switched some items directly before the pull).

Since the healing was ok for the healers, I would go for more spelldamage. And try to get
Warlock - more HP
Resto Shaman - more threat and mana
Retri Pally - more threat
Shadowpriest - more mana and health
in your group.
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Postby 2ndNin » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:49 am

Ok, last night I tanked Leotheras in Demon form, and to say it went badly would be an overstatement, actually not really sure if thats true, the whole thing went badly.

Demon phases, should I chase after the second whirlwind, or should I stay stationary and then move to him once I have shielded / exorcised him.

Demon tanking, is this better to have a paladin or a warlock, I have heard that we are better on the elf phase than a warrior, but we currently do not have a lock tank (so I am demon tanking anyway for a bit), but is there any source that we are better / worse than a lock, all the boss guides say use a lock and my guild would need a reason to keep me there. Do we pick up better, maintain aggro better or are harder to kill?

Elf phase 1, following the demon phase he goes back to being a human, should I simply attempt to pick this phase up as well until the first whirlwind then let the Elf tank take him, just wondering as he seems to get free a lot and smash everyone.

Do the DPS need to stop over the transition, I was running with 339 spell damage unbuffed (+42 oil +80 blinding light, so 461 spell damage buffed) and seemed to lose aggro easily at the start, is this just over dpsing at the start, and is a warlock better for getting this snap aggro.

I am sitting at 368 fire res, 478 def + 18 resiliance (0.02% critable) and about 12.6k health unbuffed, is this ok for the fight, would it better to be more crittable with higher spell damage or stamina?

I am also unlikely to get a stacked tank group for the fight (got either a shaman or a shadow priest, no ret pally, no warlock with imp), so what becomes most important to me to take as I can likely get any 1 of these but nothing more.

Thanks, and sorry for so many questions, just 3 wipes on Leo before trash respawn and we seem to be having great issues with both tanks getting aggro and him instead eating the dps (either through over aggro or not being close enough).

Final question, our MT warrior keeps dying to his inner demon, any hints on how to maximise his damage so he doesn't? I managed to kill mine easily enough even with no mana at the start (dps over aggro'd, I got inner demoned and boss, they went down surprisingly easily, was actually quite shocked seeing as how they are touted as a threat to the tank).
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Postby Tinkerbéll » Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:31 am

First of all: you don't need to be uncrittable when tanking Leo in Demon Form (not even in his Human Form), so go and stack some more spelldamage and stamina.

No matter who tanks, dps needs to stop before and during transition and before the whirl ends. Healers need to be careful then as well.

Assign 2 healers for Human Phase tank and 2 Healers for Demon Phase tank. The rest spreads and heals the raid.

If you are tanking Demon Form, you can also help with picking up Leo in Human Form. Stand in the center, cast Avengers 1sec before the whirl ends and you should have instant agro. You can even tank him in FR gear.

Demon Form is easier to pick up. If he transforms during whirl, use Avengers (while standing in the center) and then Exorcism.
If he is not whirling during transition, prepare Righteousness, cast consecration and as soon as he switches form use Exorcism and Judge him (you are in melee anyway).

Advantage of a Prot Pally here? We can pick him up easier and have more stamina then a lock. We need the FR gear anyway for other bosses and you don't loose the locks dps on the boss. A Prot Pally can be back up tank for Human Phase as well and healers don't have to worry about healing the pet. You can bubble out of the debuff during the last 15% and can provide yourself with the FR aura, so no need to worry about range and stuff. And you don't have to respec for this fight which is recommended for locks.

Only advice I can give to the prot Warrior: get some damage gear. There is no need to be uncrittable or uncrushable on Leo. He/She should go and test it on some mobs with around 10k hp.

Edit: And if your raid leader doesn't give you a perfect group in this fight, he/she is a retard. You need the mana and spelldamage to build up agro and the perfect Pally tank group is not completely messed up.
Last edited by Tinkerbéll on Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:10 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:34 am

prot warriors are the suck for this fight. Inner demons won't die to their prot dps(tell them to suck it up and bring some dps gear), and they just aren't as good as we(or a druid) for the transition pickups.

And either the tanks' tps is low or the dpsers are stupid, if he's going loose. a searing totem or two and good raid spreading guarantee he'll always go to the same spot, giving you guys the time to pick him up.
If the dpsers can't wait, they're dead. No way around it.
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Postby Tinkerbéll » Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:37 am

Omg, just saw that you are at 368 FR unbuffed. That is way too much. 295 is enough and then use FR aura or get a Shaman for FR totem. Better get more spelldamage and stamina.
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Postby 2ndNin » Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:51 am

Lols, sorry, 298 unbuffed, 368 with my aura up. 398 unbuffed would be insane ;D.

So basically I can completely ignore crit and go double stam trinket, drape of the righteous etc?
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Postby Worldie » Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:52 am

You sir are correct.
He uses only magic damage in demon phase, so you can ignore everything about uncrushabilty and go all out on stam, res and spelldam.

I tanked him only once, the day that the warrior which usually did it was not available, it was so ridicolously easy, i prefer human form tanking.
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Postby 2ndNin » Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:34 am

Well my problem was mainly the dps forgetting to stop, then being told a lock as so much better as dots and cod will hit and hold aggro (dps lands fireball crit as he transitions etc...), ok I forgot he was a demon the first two time :D but the third when they didn't land fireballs and stuff seemed to work fine, is there any reason to really have a warlock waste 100 badges?

I am assuming that nuking the demon takes down Leotheras's life total right? its not like Halazzi where only the Humanoid form damage counts and his demon is simply a distraction?
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Postby Tinkerbéll » Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:06 am

I don't see any reasons for a lock to get the gear. (Besides that Human Form tanking is more fun and challenging and that Pallies are really imba on Human Form).

And yes, nuking demon form takes down Leos life.
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Postby 2ndNin » Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:27 am

:( they still want to get a fire res warlock for the fight.

Is there anything I can say to let them let me tank, do I survive better or anything? More hits etc?
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Postby Tinkerbéll » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:00 am

Why do you want to tank him in Demon Form so badly?
The only real argument is, that you have the gear and the lock not. If he has the gear, he can do it as well.
Pallies are imba for Human Form tanking (and it's even more fun), so as long as a lock is present and the dps is high enough, it's better to have the lock tank.

Only case where it's better to have a Pally tank him (although a warrior could do it as well) is:

- You are lacking dps to beat the enrage
- Your lock sucks and can't get agro
- The lock is seriously lacking hp
- You have problems with timing the split and your lock dies from stacking debuffs

As long as this does not occur, it's better to tank Human Form (not because we can't do it equally good, but because we are incredibly good on Human Form).
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Postby 2ndNin » Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:23 am

Because I haven't done it yet :D

Same reason I wanted to tank nightbane, tanked MgT with no cc, and had my lock doing 3-4 mob pulls in heroic ramparts :D Its fun to do something new.

Also getting 100 badges is hard, and time consuming, while I have the gear and another spare 600 badges or so, just seems more sensible to me to tank it since its the only fight the lock would need the gear for right?
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