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BoK or BoSanctuary for heroic content

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BoK or BoSanctuary for heroic content

Postby mangos » Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:09 am

I thought BoSanctuary is the defining blessing for tankadins. However I saw many tankadins putting BoK on themselves in heroics runs. It surely make their hp/mana looks more impressive. But Bosanc reduces all sources of damage which improves a tank's effective health. So, is there a line on the gear level where BoK win over BoSanc once gear is good enough? or is it never and those tankadins are just stupid?
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Postby Lowgrus » Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:33 am

Just like with every class there is never one set thing you use. Everything in the game varies. I used to play a warlock eons ago it seems. And I used to think to myself why would I ever use anything other than an imp. For a long time I never got the quest completed even for the other summons. Man was I dumb.

Well same thing most of the time in an instance 5 man i just use king for more hp/mana since I need to take more damage anyways and my threat is good enough. I dont evne use devo aura any more. Now when I go into shatterd hallz, you better use blessing of sanctuary ( save for on bosses) I even use it on the last boss and AoE tank all the little things.

You'd be surprised but sometimes i even bless myself with wisdom for less down time. For starting out though I'd say use sanctuary and devo aura. But hey dont take my word for it. Heck for starting out I spec holy, get a ton of badges and pwn. just ezier that way.

You'd be surprised but when in 25 mans you may even put salv on.
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Postby Eltiana » Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:32 am

BoSanc is overrated imo, except in AoE situations, such as SH like mentioned above. If you are geared enough to run heroics effectively though, BoK is usually better. Unless you're overgeared, then go for Wisdom :P
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Postby Kelaan » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:50 am

Lowgrus wrote:Heck for starting out I spec holy, get a ton of badges and pwn. just ezier that way.


BLASPHEMY! :D (Actually, I'm thinking of doing the same, since my prot gear -- while uncrushable -- still seems too squishy (low block value and stamina) for Heroics.)

As for when/why to use Kings... I use Kings when I feel that I am more likely to die to burst damage. (Which, for me, is all the time it seems.) Having a better reaction buffer for the healer seems to help me more than the relatively small (?) reduced damage from BoSanc. Then again, I've only done heroic SH and the first part of Slave Pens, so What Do I Know. ;)
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Postby Lookit » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:11 am

Kelaan wrote:
BLASPHEMY! :D (Actually, I'm thinking of doing the same, since my prot gear -- while uncrushable -- still seems too squishy (low block value and stamina) for Heroics.)


Actually, you don't need to worry about uncrushability at all in heroics. Only mobs 3 levels higher than you (i.e. boss mobs) can crush. For heroics, stamina is much more important, along with block value and avoidance. Switch your gear around a bit, don't worry about uncrushability, get a beefier health pool and you should be just fine in heroics.

On topic, I usually go with Kings because I love the extra health and avoidance. It's particularly nice if you have a priest or warlock giving you their stamina buff, since their buff will gain the benefit of kings as well, really boosting your health pool.

While Sanctuary is great for AOE tanking, I find that typically in heroics, when there are more than 5 mobs beating on you, they will tend to be weaker mobs and there isn't much fear of dying anyways. On harder hitting mobs, and bosses, there's no doubt that Kings is more helpful.
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Re: BoK or BoSanctuary for heroic content

Postby ldeboer » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:12 pm

mangos wrote:I thought BoSanctuary is the defining blessing for tankadins. However I saw many tankadins putting BoK on themselves in heroics runs. It surely make their hp/mana looks more impressive. But Bosanc reduces all sources of damage which improves a tank's effective health. So, is there a line on the gear level where BoK win over BoSanc once gear is good enough? or is it never and those tankadins are just stupid?


Spot the old pro tank who has done the heroic instance many times he throws up kings spot the newbie tank he throws up BOS ...

I know it's a simplification cause it may depend on party mix and a tank may have good reasons for it .... WHY YOU ASK ;)

Simple the one with kings wants to get hit he wants his healer healing him cause he wants mana so he can power on thru the instance.

The one with BOS is worried about how much damage he will take and whether the healer can hold him up.

You really know your pally tank outgears an instance when he starts taking armour off :)

Was on my mage one time with a high end raiding guild pally tank doing heroic BM who is tanking adds and boss and comes the call to the healer from him I have just chugged my 2nd mana pot and taken my helm off. if you dont heal me regardless of my health I swear I am going to take all my gear off to force you too.

You get the point being a tank you want the right amount of damage you dont want too much or you die too little and you get no mana from heals.

Warriors have same issue if they out gear an instance by too much they cant get rage cause nothing can hit them.

Tanking is always situational to get the balance right thats what makes it different all the time.
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Postby Aloette » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:54 pm

for content that I don't outgear (and thus likely to not run OOM) i use sanctuary (dont have kings).

for content that i outgear i use wisdom to reduce downtime
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Re: BoK or BoSanctuary for heroic content

Postby mangos » Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:29 pm

ldeboer wrote:
mangos wrote:I thought BoSanctuary is the defining blessing for tankadins. However I saw many tankadins putting BoK on themselves in heroics runs. It surely make their hp/mana looks more impressive. But Bosanc reduces all sources of damage which improves a tank's effective health. So, is there a line on the gear level where BoK win over BoSanc once gear is good enough? or is it never and those tankadins are just stupid?


Spot the old pro tank who has done the heroic instance many times he throws up kings spot the newbie tank he throws up BOS ...

I know it's a simplification cause it may depend on party mix and a tank may have good reasons for it .... WHY YOU ASK ;)

Simple the one with kings wants to get hit he wants his healer healing him cause he wants mana so he can power on thru the instance.

The one with BOS is worried about how much damage he will take and whether the healer can hold him up.

You really know your pally tank outgears an instance when he starts taking armour off :)

Was on my mage one time with a high end raiding guild pally tank doing heroic BM who is tanking adds and boss and comes the call to the healer from him I have just chugged my 2nd mana pot and taken my helm off. if you dont heal me regardless of my health I swear I am going to take all my gear off to force you too.

You get the point being a tank you want the right amount of damage you dont want too much or you die too little and you get no mana from heals.

Warriors have same issue if they out gear an instance by too much they cant get rage cause nothing can hit them.

Tanking is always situational to get the balance right thats what makes it different all the time.


Thanks for the info!

One question, do pally tank get mana back for effective healing only or also from over heal?
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Postby Aloette » Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:56 pm

overheals do not return mana through SA.
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Postby Robin de tolens » Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:34 am

Aloette wrote:overheals do not return mana through SA.


It would be OP =P

Just a question, as I noticed you said Fortitude gets the bonus of Kings. Does it get the bonus of our talents as well?
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Postby Syrcla » Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:41 am

Robin de tolens wrote:
Aloette wrote:overheals do not return mana through SA.


It would be OP =P

Just a question, as I noticed you said Fortitude gets the bonus of Kings. Does it get the bonus of our talents as well?


It WAS overpowered and that is why it was changed to only effective healing.

Yes, fort will scale with our +stam talents and kings will push it even further.
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Postby Gimorth » Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:20 am

An important thig to note, as well, is that BoS' damage reduction is applied before armor an talents. This is a very important distinction and contributes greatly to why Kings is preferred.

Let's greatly over-simplify it all...

Let's say you are standing there with 60% damage reduction from armor and 10K HP. A mob with a base hit of 10K is going to hit you for 4000 HP, leaving you with 6000 HP. (60%)

If you pop Blessing of sanctuary on you, the mob's base damage drops to 9920. After your armor reduction, he will hit you for 3968. A total of 32 damage less than he would have if you didn't have BoS on. This would leave you with 6032 HP. (60.32%)

However, let's give ourselves kings... Now, you have 11K HP. His swing hits you for 4K HP, leaving you with 7K HP. (63.63%) Not to mention the fact that kings will give you more armor (from Agility), more dodge (from agility), more BV (strengtg) and more mana- these are, of course, pretty negligible differences.

BoS only gets worse as your gear gets better, while Kings gets better.
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Postby ldeboer » Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:17 pm

Aloette wrote:overheals do not return mana through SA.


Sorry yes I know .. but you also can guess he was working in the top like 5-15% of his health doubt anyone could take no damage in heroic BM while tanking boss and adds.

You know the story what he wanted was a consistant chain of heals so he could work with his mana pool rather than patchy HOT's and then the occassional big heal.
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Postby mangos » Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:59 pm

Gimorth wrote:An important thig to note, as well, is that BoS' damage reduction is applied before armor an talents. This is a very important distinction and contributes greatly to why Kings is preferred.



damage reduction before armor and talent? That explains it. Then I guess bok is surely the way to go in most cases except multi-small-hitting-trash mobs.
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Postby turion350 » Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:04 am

You know, i dont even have BoS on my hotbar. I forgot i even had it until bout 2 weeks ago when i was training a new pally tank. In my opinion, Kings is an auto buff, never have anything else on, how can you argue against a 10% increase in all stats? as pointed out, more hp, more armor=more mitigation. as for overgeared, what i do, i dont take gear off if i run 00m, that just means you need to take on an entire room:P
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