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Paladin MT on felmyst

Kalecgos, Brutallus, Felmyst, M'uru, Entropius, Kil'jaeden

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Paladin MT on felmyst

Postby artofray » Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:10 am

So after wiping for 6 hours to retarded mistakes, when we had him to 4% within the first 2 hours, we down'd felmyst using two tanks, a prot warrior + me a pally tank. The warrior tanked phase1 and I tanked the adds in phase2.

After having completed this fight, I have to say this is a fight in sunwell where a prot paladin is very viable as the MT over a warrior. The boss itself doesn't hit TOO hard that only a warrior would be able to tank it. Here are some advantages for us prot paladins in this fight for you guys that will be attempting felmyst soon. Maybe this thread will help you be an MT for the progression fight :)


1.) Felmyst is an undead, so a fully T6 geared paladin's threat will be much higher on this fight compard to a warrior. Higher threat really helps for this encounter since aggro DOES NOT reset between phase transitions. So if one of your ranged DPS gets too high in threat in phase 2 Felmyst will go directly on to them which can get nasty since he has a pretty wide cleave.

2.) Bringing a prot paladin for this fight for phase2 is practically a must since it makes that phase EXTREMELY easy than having no prot paladins. Holy paladins can yea pop RF and conc to pick up a few but at max maybe 4 or 5 they hit clothies for about 1200-1500 and holy paladins for about 700-800 I believe. There is a LOT of adds by the end of the beams before the breaths come in so yea this phase is much much easier having an aoe tank to grab the skeles.

3.) Another reason why we're very viable for MT is that avoidance isn't as big an issue as threat and effective health on this fight, which makes us almost on par with having a warrior MT. A lot of the damage the MT takes is from his aura which ticks every 2-3 second for 1000, corrosion which he casts every 15-20 seconds, and a dispellable vapor gas which actually should get max one tick off. His melee swings doesn't hit too hard.

4.) Having a paladin tank MT gives you flexibility on that open raid spot where we were the OT since we can tank both phases without a problem you can add in to the raid what your guild needs most to progress. For example if your phase2 is not too clean and the skeles are not getting picked up fast enough before breaths hit then maybe you want to bring a druid OT in to dps during phase1 and help grab some adds you couldn't get to with also bringing in another battle rez. Battle rezs help in this fight a lot although we only used one resto druid. If your having problems getting past phase1 due to dispels not getting off fast enough or healing you could free up that extra tank spot with another CoH spec'd priest. If your lacking in dps, bring in another ranged dps.

I won't go into too much detail about strategies to use and what the best ways to pick up the adds in phase2 so you guys can go find out for yourself. But for all the paladins who have felt that blizzard hasn't given us any content where we shine over the other tanking classes, well here it is imo.

I encourage all you other prot paladins to talk to your guild about taking up the progression MT role for this encounter. If there's anything in TBC for paladins to shine as a MT, I believe it's this fight. I mean they even made corrosion non spell reflectable :)
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Postby fiorina » Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:55 am

eh... he hits warrior for 15k swing + 13k cleave during +dmg debuff (3+ times during one phase)

That's 1200 more damage(+4% damage) just because you are paladin, not talking about 3k nature damage ticks(+6% damage).
Threat is not an issue for warrior, they can easily sustain 1200+ TPS in full tanking gear including weapon.
I doubt paladin is best choice as MT there during progression fight. Certaily doable, but well. I would go for some prot/holy hybrid maybe to be the best contribution to raid.

our best try was about 20%, purely because of few retards... I love this fight, awesome retard check
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Postby Neuron » Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:35 am

l <3 retard checks. kalecgos is unfortunately also a bit of a retard check.
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Postby artofray » Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:50 am

fiorina wrote:eh... he hits warrior for 15k swing + 13k cleave during +dmg debuff (3+ times during one phase)

That's 1200 more damage(+4% damage) just because you are paladin, not talking about 3k nature damage ticks(+6% damage).
Threat is not an issue for warrior, they can easily sustain 1200+ TPS in full tanking gear including weapon.
I doubt paladin is best choice as MT there during progression fight. Certaily doable, but well. I would go for some prot/holy hybrid maybe to be the best contribution to raid.

our best try was about 20%, purely because of few retards... I love this fight, awesome retard check


what kind of tanks do you have? he hits our tank for 10-12k during corrosion debuff and its easily heal-able by paladins. Also its 100% more physical damage only, the nature debuff or poison does not double in damage. It also wouldn't be 6%+ damage frmo nature damage since you can spec for spell warding instead of reckoning here. There is no way warriors can pull the threat paladins can on this fight, and if you have any half decent ranged dps they are holding back during the 2nd phases.

After clearing Sunwell again tonight, I have to say though with the way beams can come out sometimes, it really won't work with just one tank so a feral druid would have to be coming along. Still at least they can dps and provide a battle res, which can save you from a wipe if you happen to lose a priest.
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Postby fiorina » Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:53 am

artofray wrote:what kind of tanks do you have? he hits our tank for 10-12k during corrosion debuff and its easily heal-able by paladins. Also its 100% more physical damage only, the nature debuff or poison does not double in damage. It also wouldn't be 6%+ damage frmo nature damage since you can spec for spell warding instead of reckoning here. There is no way warriors can pull the threat paladins can on this fight, and if you have any half decent ranged dps they are holding back during the 2nd phases.

After clearing Sunwell again tonight, I have to say though with the way beams can come out sometimes, it really won't work with just one tank so a feral druid would have to be coming along. Still at least they can dps and provide a battle res, which can save you from a wipe if you happen to lose a priest.


We have tanks in best gear available, 8/8 now, thanks for asking. We have DPS, well... check yourself http://wowwebstats.com/?search=brutallus (black division). No, they don't have to hold back in this fight.

Yes, big difference, he could hit for 13k with 12k cleave, while fully debuffed and with ironshield up. That's 25k instant + corrosion for 8.5k + aura for 3k ticking on you + possible encapsulate ticking right after for 3,5k.
You are telling me that -4% physical dmg, -6% magical damage, last stand and bigger mitigation due to tanking weapon and no intelect wasted budget is worse or even the same? It's not. Guess what, because of Sunwell radiance and his slow attack speed, warrior can block all attacks, we can't. Ironic.

Again, paladin can MT him no problem at all. I did that for testing. But sometimes you just have 30k spike and encapsulate on tank following. You want fast progress, guess what. Paladin have perfect place in this fight already. You usually need 2 tanks anyway because catching the skeletons could be tricky sometimes.
It's not a very hard boss, nice mix of nightbane, heigan and sapphiron. Retard check and movement fight. I like it.

Dmg from Felmyst to raid. Kill attempt. Feel free to play with log and filters.
http://wowwebstats.com/myzs5qlrelvpq?s= ... it=0&fih=7
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Postby artofray » Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:21 am

Yes, big difference, he could hit for 13k with 12k cleave, while fully debuffed and with ironshield up. That's 25k instant + corrosion for 8.5k + aura for 3k ticking on you + possible encapsulate ticking right after for 3,5k.
You are telling me that -4% physical dmg, -6% magical damage, last stand and bigger mitigation due to tanking weapon and no intelect wasted budget is worse or even the same? It's not. Guess what, because of Sunwell radiance and his slow attack speed, warrior can block all attacks, we can't. Ironic.

Again, paladin can MT him no problem at all. I did that for testing. But sometimes you just have 30k spike and encapsulate on tank following. You want fast progress, guess what. Paladin have perfect place in this fight already. You usually need 2 tanks anyway because catching the skeletons could be tricky sometimes.
It's not a very hard boss, nice mix of nightbane, heigan and sapphiron. Retard check and movement fight. I like it.

Dmg from Felmyst to raid. Kill attempt. Feel free to play with log and filters.
http://wowwebstats.com/myzs5qlrelvpq?s= ... it=0&fih=7



If he gets radiance buff, and you get hit with corrosion, a cleave, a melee, and encapsulate at same time any tank will die that is a silly point and I'm not even sure why you brought it up??? Also CORROSION = 100%+ physical damage for the last time, it does not affect the nature damage.

This thread is saying paladins are better MTs assuming that there is no problem healing the damage in, which for a fully geared raid and geared paladin tank there shouldn't be any issues. Obviously huge spikes can happen it's just how the fight is you can't avoid getting corrosion then melee'd + instant cleave for 30k+ damage, but this is very rare.

During progression attempts on this boss, our failures rarely came from tanks dying although it did happen a few times. The things in this fight that leads to wipes were; retards that are incapable of running north and south, bad encapsulates from retards not paying attention, and priests dying causing groups to merge which usually leads to bad encapsulates and the occasional failure of priests not dispelling on queue.
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Postby fiorina » Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:56 am

You don't have to comment how silly points I have. You can bring some hard data instead so we can compare and learn.

...well, WWS are up, movies are up, we have bit different opinions, let people sort it out according to their raid needs.
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Postby Ossuary » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:14 am

Felmyst is an undead, so a fully T6 geared paladin's threat will be much higher on this fight compard to a warrior.


-_- i only wish i could match our guilds warrior MT Threat.
Ever since he picked up the 1H sword off Kalecgos his TPS has been able to keep about a constant 1800~2k when hes pushing threat.

Though granted i have not yet tanked anything that really takes advantage of Holy shield enough *coughbrutalluscough* But mabye Lore or Eliane could say.[/quote]
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Postby Worldie » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:22 am

constant 1800 TPS still looks like bs to me even with that sword
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Postby Eliane » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:39 am

Ossuary wrote:Though granted i have not yet tanked anything that really takes advantage of Holy shield enough *coughbrutalluscough* But mabye Lore or Eliane could say.


I cant really say what my tps was in that fight, but I'll give you a screenshof the dps I had to beat :)

(I dunno why they arent here but our warlocks are usually well above 2k dps with the rogues and the warrior)

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I can also link a movie from the same kill but from a rogues PoV if anyone's intersted.
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Postby Lucit » Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:25 am

We used all three of our tanks on various learning attempts, ended up killing it with a druid MT. Didn't really make a difference who was tanking, except that it was a lot easier after the first night (where I was the *only* tank).

Having an extra tank around makes it a lot easier to round up the skeletons in phase 2. I also think it's slightly better having your prot pally doing "nothing" during ground phases - I can help a lot by cleaning up after MD resists (also, lolNightfall).
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Postby Rorshach » Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:09 pm

fiorina wrote:eh... he hits warrior for 15k swing + 13k cleave during +dmg debuff (3+ times during one phase)

That's 1200 more damage(+4% damage) just because you are paladin, not talking about 3k nature damage ticks(+6% damage).
Threat is not an issue for warrior, they can easily sustain 1200+ TPS in full tanking gear including weapon.
I doubt paladin is best choice as MT there during progression fight. Certaily doable, but well. I would go for some prot/holy hybrid maybe to be the best contribution to raid.

our best try was about 20%, purely because of few retards... I love this fight, awesome retard check


It seems like everytime I read a post from Fiorina it says some variation of the following: prot paladin is not the best tank for this boss, go with a warrior instead. While you do occassionally have some good points and/or stats it's hard to not instantly skim/ignore what you write due to your obvious bias.
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Postby Lucit » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:03 pm

Rorshach wrote:It seems like everytime I read a post from Fiorina it says some variation of the following: prot paladin is not the best tank for this boss, go with a warrior instead. While you do occassionally have some good points and/or stats it's hard to not instantly skim/ignore what you write due to your obvious bias.


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Postby Worldie » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:06 pm

It maybe hurts but that doesn't change that Fiorina is right.

He justs uses some critical point of view, without trying to mindlessly say that paladins are equally viable, since most of the times they are not.
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Postby YoYoMa » Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:24 am

Isn't the spirit of the boards to promote strats and information at all levels for how prot pallies can tank or contribute to these fights? The OP posted information on how he tanked the boss on a progression kill. Then others jump on him saying, omg you aren't viable, let a warrior tank everything!!! It worked for his guild that's awesome. Just because you don't do it, why try to degrade his effort?
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