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So this week I plan on AoEing Kara.

Attumen, Moroes, Maiden, Opera, Curator, Illhoof, Aran, Netherspite, Chess, Prince, Nightbane

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

So this week I plan on AoEing Kara.

Postby antiy4ho0 » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:43 am

I know theres a few topics on this, but I feel this isn't a "Am I ready" type thread and more of a "I am ready, I just want to make sure I have all my bases covered" type deal.

So tonight when my guild picked up Kara we had nobody to fill in the OT spot, so after 15 minutes of looking I decided we can just grab a 6th DPS and try it. We picked up after Curator so we had trash to Aran and beyond. Everything went smooth, the biggest thing I was worried about was the fleshbeasts but my healers did a great job kept me up no problem.

(Long story short version starts here)

So since my guild doesn't have a reliable OT I'm thinking about not even bothering looking for one Tuesday on the reset and AoEing the whole thing. Things I'm worried about:

Moroes Gouge/Blind. We've got a hunter with a set of PvP gear on, I'm thinking keep BoSacrifice on him, keep him on Moroes the whole time (to make sure hes #2 on threat) and he should be able to take a hit with 12k HP yes?

Maiden I have been the cleanser the last month or so. I think its just time for our healers to wake up and get to cleansing. Nothing I do about this but throw cleanses between GCDs when possible (lol).

Ice tomb mobs, I plan on doing BoSacrifice on our hunter again. I think these mobs actually hit harder than Moroes though? Maybe I'm losing it. Anyway I've also heard they don't ice tomb if you keep the frost shock off of you but I doubt thats true? Confirmation?

Opera is where things get tricky for me. I feel confident that I can tank Romeo and Juliet at the same time, I feel fine in Big Bad Wolf but I'm nervous if we get Oz. I've Tanked Tito+roar+straw before but I don't know what to do about Tin Man. Should he just be kited by somebody the entire fight? As in around the whole room? Because I don't think I can take all 4.

Slightly worried about the 2 robots before Curator that do the overload, but I assume if I can tank the 2 fleshbeasts these guys should be no problem? (I really can't remember for the life of me if these guys hit hard or if they leave me mana starved, its one of the 2)

Thats pretty much everything I can think of. Will need someone with High HP to eat the hateful bolts from Curator but other than that I think its smooth sailing until Netherspite. Again having the hunter on the red beam sounds fine to me.

So yeah anyone with experience with AoE tanking kara could give any insight that would be great.
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Postby Ordin » Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:30 am

Druids are great for Moroes if you have one. Otherwise, be sure your DPS is fast enough to take down the adds before you get blinded/gouged. A hunter could probably survive a hit from Moroes, but won't survive the adds.

LOL at cleansing during Maiden. It's not going to happen. You'll be mashing your holy shield button constantly, combined with judgement and consecrate. Just make sure your DPS doesn't pull aggro, because your threat will be slightly lower.

Ice tombing mobs are a bitch. Shackle one if you can, and burn down the other. High doses of DPS is key. Salv the healers so they stay up. Maybe make a specific DPSer your sacrificial lamb and give them something other than Salv.

Oz can be a pain. Don't worry about Dorothee, and if you can kill her fast enough Tito won't spawn. Kill them off in order they activate (Roar, Strawman, Tinman). If you can control all of them without dying, you'll be fine, just keep melee DPS out of Tinman's cleave. Once he slows down, try to move away from him to make things easier for the healers.

Robots are cake. Fleshbeasts slightly tougher cake.

Netherspite. Don't forget Netherspite. A plate wearer could conceivably do it, but it's not easy. My experience with non-plate (or non-bears) is that their lack of armor screws them pretty hard when they're not in the beam. They can only take one hit out of the beam. Netherspite has become my least favorite fight because of this.
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Postby Cearn » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:20 am

for the ice-tombing mobs, shackle one and have a hunter without salv be second on threat: tomb -> cheetah -> go.
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Postby Holyfuri » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:25 am

I aoe tank kara every week.

For moroes I would recommend having a bear druid or a dps warrior be your second on threat if possible. Sometimes he might gouge you without blessing of sacrafice up, it happens. Plus moroes running across the room after a hunter just tends to freak people out, lol.

For the Ice tomb mobs if your hunter is second on aggro and you put blessing of sacrafice on him, when he is hit you will be freed from the ice tomb and he will come back to you. If you have no priest to shackle that makes things more interesting, lol.

For Opera just tank everything. You can have someone kite tinman around, it's not that hard really.

During maiden you want to put up seal of the crusader, blow avenging wrath, put up holy shield, and Avenger's Shield her to start the fight, run to the middle, and start spamming buttons. Spam holy shield, consecrate, and judgement/seal. her silence makes it to where you pretty much break your keyboard every time you tank her. Let your healers worry about cleanses.

Just dual tank the robots before curator, they hit harder than curator does, but if you can handle the flesh beast pulls then you will be fine with them.

For netherspite pick someone in plate to take the red beam second phase. Anyone in less armor is going to have it rough, though a rogue can do it once with evasion.

On a side note, AoE tanking kara is one of the most fun things I have done. It is enjoyable, not worrying about cc, and just marking skull, pulling, and repeating.

PS - For the room before Illhoof, with the three imps and three casters. Best way to pull that is to let everyone know to not do ANYTHING until you call for it, run in, bubble, consecrate max rank, wait 3 seconds, debuff your bubble, then call for dps and heals. All of them will be right on top of you and be able to be aoe'd down. One of those things that make people that haven't seen it before go... "wow that was cool"
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Postby Catriona » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:51 am

For the room before Illhoof, with the three imps and three casters. Best way to pull that is to let everyone know to not do ANYTHING until you call for it, run in, bubble, consecrate max rank, wait 3 seconds, debuff your bubble, then call for dps and heals. All of them will be right on top of you and be able to be aoe'd down. One of those things that make people that haven't seen it before go... "wow that was cool"

...I completely forgot about this when I just ran in the other day and feel stupid. Thank you for the reminder for when it resets. ^__^
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Postby Exalt » Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:57 am

Holyfuri wrote:For netherspite pick someone in plate to take the red beam second phase. Anyone in less armor is going to have it rough, though a rogue can do it once with evasion.


A hunter with aspect of the monkey is a solid choice, as is a holy pally. Rather than dance in and out, we just have two people who can take a hit or two without the benefit of the beam start off by getting his attention after each banish. Once their debuff stacks to 25, someone else subs in. Our rotation usually looks something like this:

round 1: I start, and a holy paladin subs me out and self-heals through it.
round 2: Fury warrior/feral drood starts, hunter subs them out with aspect of the monkey on.

Holyfuri wrote:PS - For the room before Illhoof, with the three imps and three casters. Best way to pull that is to let everyone know to not do ANYTHING until you call for it, run in, bubble, consecrate max rank, wait 3 seconds, debuff your bubble, then call for dps and heals. All of them will be right on top of you and be able to be aoe'd down. One of those things that make people that haven't seen it before go... "wow that was cool"


I typically mark the far right caster as first kill (and leave him untanked), run in and consecrate on the 2 casters and 2 imps on the left, and exorcise the free imp not in the consecrate. By the time that's done, I can taunt skull (who's nearly dead now) and get some JoR's in on the two casters sitting in consecrate. Usually no one gets hit with more than one spell, other than me.
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Postby Ariashley » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:33 am

Ordin wrote:Netherspite. Don't forget Netherspite. A plate wearer could conceivably do it, but it's not easy. My experience with non-plate (or non-bears) is that their lack of armor screws them pretty hard when they're not in the beam. They can only take one hit out of the beam. Netherspite has become my least favorite fight because of this.


Not sure what the rest of your group make up is. You can take an entire phase of red beam if you jump in and out every 5 seconds or so. You would really need 2 to take the 2nd round of red beam though. We've brought a ton of groups to Kara with the worst raid make-ups ever and still killed him (sometimes with only 1 druid healer as the only healer for the entire raid). Paladin healer can take half a red beam with a shield. Moonkin Druid in moonkin form even can take half a red beam. Tree might be able to do it with barkskin or - if you can live without 20 seconds of heals from him - he can be a bear. We even have an enhancement shaman who has been collecting tanking gear (not kidding - he wants to be the first ever shaman tank) who has taken half a red beam successfully.

SOO much of all raids is just knowing where to stand and what to do and what not to do. At certain levels, gear is important and it's more important for the tank and healers than for other classes, probably. My point is, experience, if you have it, makes up for a lot of other faults.
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Postby Holyfuri » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:11 pm

Exalt wrote:
I typically mark the far right caster as first kill (and leave him untanked), run in and consecrate on the 2 casters and 2 imps on the left, and exorcise the free imp not in the consecrate. By the time that's done, I can taunt skull (who's nearly dead now) and get some JoR's in on the two casters sitting in consecrate. Usually no one gets hit with more than one spell, other than me.


But using the bubble pull is SOOO much easier, safer, and much more fun to do imho =)
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Postby antiy4ho0 » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:38 pm

I just did a LoS pull all the way back up the ramp last night. Hit the three imps with the frisbee threw a excorcism on a imp and started running back up the ramp. Dropped consecrate about halfway and turned the corner. Think I only ate 2 spells running back, not too bad I don't think. Maybe I'll try this bubble thing sometime. I just could see myself messing it up and the pull running up to wtfpwn my raid.

Anyway thanks for all the feedback so far. If we have our druid on I'll probably be having him on everything I said the hunter would be in charge of. Thing is he isn't so reliable so I'm planning on not having him, if hes there then he saves some headache ;P

Thanks for the feedback so far guys. Sounds like the consensus is do BoSacrifice on a plate DPS if possible.

I'm not too worried about Netherspite right now. I don't think we'll be doing him if our druid isn't there.
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Postby mustangofold » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:59 pm

Only thing I worry about an OT for is Moroes (not counting Dragons), but your plan sounds good.
Opera I "accidentally" picked up everything this week because our hunter kept kiting right down the center of my consecrate. No problem if your healers can keep you up on 2 flesh beasts.
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Postby Bellic » Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:00 pm

If you are lucky on Moroes and get Lord Crispin you can pull him with Moroes and his damage will break gouge, but not be so much that your healers can't deal with it.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:07 pm

The instance can be AOEd, except for the parts with touchy threat mechanics

1: Moroes. If you overgear it, the best way to handle gouge is..not looking at him. Consecration and judgment don't require facing, so moon moroes till he dies.
if you aren't feeling safe with that(T5 gear works fine enough), and has no plate/moonkin aroudn to be 2nd threat, a hunter staying 2nd at max range works just as well. Gouge is over before anything reaches the hunter.
2: Ushers. Same deal of moroes, without the butt-tanking option. Apparently(this is a personal feeling that I have yet to prove) they aern't tomb-happy if you keep yourself clean of frost shock.

3: Spite. Worst comes to worst, even clothies can hold him for 5~ ticks. Anything with a shield, or platelike armor works.

4: Chess Event. You can't AOEChess. Sorry.
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Postby antiy4ho0 » Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:04 pm

Snake-Aes wrote:4: Chess Event. You can't AOEChess. Sorry.


... Game over man :(

I don't think I'll be mooning Moroes. I thought that mobs fall off of you when you get gouged? Or does Crispin do a rend type dot?

Well thanks for all the insight guys. It looks like we might have a druid coming with us tonight, His gear isn't great so I'll most likely be AoEing the majority of it but I will have him as my BoSacrifice target
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Postby Snake-Aes » Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:18 pm

antiy4ho0 wrote:
Snake-Aes wrote:4: Chess Event. You can't AOEChess. Sorry.


... Game over man :(

I don't think I'll be mooning Moroes. I thought that mobs fall off of you when you get gouged? Or does Crispin do a rend type dot?

Well thanks for all the insight guys. It looks like we might have a druid coming with us tonight, His gear isn't great so I'll most likely be AoEing the majority of it but I will have him as my BoSacrifice target
Like other breakable CC, you don't lose threat. You lose aggro for as long as the cc is there. Break the cc and (if you're top of threat list of course) he'll beeline back to you.
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Postby antiy4ho0 » Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:25 pm

I was actually talking about what Bellic said. He said that Crispin's damage wil break gouge. I'm just wondering how I can plan on him breaking my gouge when hes going to run away from me as soon as I get gouged :P
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