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MT and OT threat

Attumen, Moroes, Maiden, Opera, Curator, Illhoof, Aran, Netherspite, Chess, Prince, Nightbane

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MT and OT threat

Postby Elduril » Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:54 pm

Hello guys,first post by me and I have to say thx for all the help this site has provided me so far.

I've run kara with my paladin a few times, and since he started as an alt, always as the OT. Not the easiest past due to struggling for mana sometimes, but still had no problem at all doing my part.

Last night I was the MT for the run with a warrior OT. What I noticed was that the warrior would sometimes steal aggro from me on mobs. That happened only if i pulled with judgment or exorcism, instead of using AS. I don't know if he taunted of me since i wasn't able to see a 'jump' in omen.

But the thing that really got me worried was Curator. I was MT with him being OT/ hateful bolt soaker. I think it was 2 mins into the fight and after the first evocation that I lost aggro and was left way back after that. I really cant remember if I was oom though.

My cycle was AW->AS->JoW->HS->SoR and after that judge and concecrate every cd,with HS up all the time.

I never played another tanking class to know how they work so i would like to know is

a)Too much mitigation resulted in not enough mana back?
b)Warrior was too eager to prove himself so wasn't trying to OT but steal aggro?
c)Get a shadowpriest and judge crusader?
d)Warrior single target threat is that much superior?

At the time i was using only adept's elixir for extra threat,and t4 gloves instead of the maiden ones.

My armory http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet ... &n=Elduril

Warrior currently logged in pvp gear, but i have a feeling i outgear him for a little bit due to badge rewards.

Thank you all in advance for the help and sorry for the long text or if it's posted in the wrong section.
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Postby Lalecize » Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:42 pm

Hey!

You have plenty of spell damage, however I think you are starting off a little too slow.

I will generally do the following

Pop SoR

AS + AW > JoR > Consecrate > Sotc > Jotc > SoR/Consecrate x 999999

After I have the initial threat burst I then will judge wisdom on him during the flares, and switch back to crusader a few secods before the evocate to help with my dps.

I also use a warrior offtank. The key to Curator is that you are always going to outhreat the dps just due to the fact that the dps are off after flares most of the time. Your offtank may be a bit jealous of you and is trying to threat race you. This can lead to problems, as you know you don't need to pump out as much TPS on this fight as you do others, yet they go balls to the wall.

My off tanks know that if they pull aggro, I go OOM and theres no more me in the fight.

I would say adjust your rotation a little. Hit hard with a SoR to grab the attention at the start and dump a consecrate. Use a JotC until your well ahead on threat before swapping to wisdom. If he is overtaking you near the start - this is most likely your issue.

I try not to consecrate too much during the fight or I end up with chain lightning all over me from the flares.
I judge crusader just before evocate on curator, and have AW and JoR and Consecrate all off cooldown waiting for the evo. During the evo my threat is absolutely enormous, and after 1 evo, theres no way the warriors going to get close to me. I then use JoW after the evo to save my mana up for the next one. During this time the warrior catches up but never enough to overtake.

Of course it doesn't particularly matter now that we get him down during the second evo lol.
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Re: MT and OT threat

Postby ldeboer » Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:24 pm

Elduril wrote:Hello guys,first post by me and I have to say thx for all the help this site has provided me so far.

I've run kara with my paladin a few times, and since he started as an alt, always as the OT. Not the easiest past due to struggling for mana sometimes, but still had no problem at all doing my part.

Last night I was the MT for the run with a warrior OT. What I noticed was that the warrior would sometimes steal aggro from me on mobs. That happened only if i pulled with judgment or exorcism, instead of using AS. I don't know if he taunted of me since i wasn't able to see a 'jump' in omen.

But the thing that really got me worried was Curator. I was MT with him being OT/ hateful bolt soaker. I think it was 2 mins into the fight and after the first evocation that I lost aggro and was left way back after that. I really cant remember if I was oom though.

My cycle was AW->AS->JoW->HS->SoR and after that judge and concecrate every cd,with HS up all the time.

I never played another tanking class to know how they work so i would like to know is

a)Too much mitigation resulted in not enough mana back?
b)Warrior was too eager to prove himself so wasn't trying to OT but steal aggro?
c)Get a shadowpriest and judge crusader?
d)Warrior single target threat is that much superior?

At the time i was using only adept's elixir for extra threat,and t4 gloves instead of the maiden ones.

My armory http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet ... &n=Elduril

Warrior currently logged in pvp gear, but i have a feeling i outgear him for a little bit due to badge rewards.

Thank you all in advance for the help and sorry for the long text or if it's posted in the wrong section.


You have 311 spell dmg thats fine for kara.

Your OT is an arse tell him to watch his threat meter you are supposed to be working as a team .. Warriors can generate enormous rage on a single target.

If he continuous to be an arse put BOP on him and see how he deals with it :)
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Postby Elduril » Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:13 am

At that time I thought his tps was just that good that I couldn't keep up. As it turns out, he was using some high threat move, might even be taunt (i might talk nonsense,don't know warriors) to generate aggro. My GL who also run kara with his alt prot pally, had the same problem with a really eager warrior.

I hope that next time i will use the evocation stage properly and it won't happen again.

Thank you very much for the help guys
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Postby Thanehand » Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:35 am

What spec was this warrior? Prot? If he wasn't, he might have been using something like Heroic Strike (High Threat Gen), in which case he's an ass...

My first suggestion would be to run Kara with an Arm/Fury warrior if you are MTing, not a prot one (have no idea... just thought I'd throw it in there).

On the curator, the OT just needs to stack stm, he doesn't really need to generate lots of threat anyway. The strike will hit the person with the highest *Current* HP pool anyway. He needs to be kept topped off with heals.

If you're using the Bunch-Up-Behind-The Curator-And Nuke Flares tactic (my guild do) then he should be dpsing the flares too. If you're using the ranged tactic (never managed to make that work) then he's going to spend to much time running around anyway)

My suggestion for tanking is:
Prep SoR, HS, AS Pull, run in and Judge/1 Consc...
Then just use Consc/SoR to keep aggro. I don't usually bother with HS or judge unless the dps are catching me up. Keeping HS down will aslo mean more heals for you and therefore more mana, provided your healers can cope. Use rank1 HS if you have too use HS at all. Judge Wisdom on him with your 2nd judgement Cd

10sec before he Evo's judge him with SotC
Just as he evocates, make sure you've got SoR primed, Wings, Concs, Judge, AS and smack him to hell.. again don't was a GCD on HS (he's not hitting you..)

And, what Ideboer said: BoP the overzealous warrior :D
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Postby Duzzit » Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:55 am

my warrior ot used to taunt a lot, but stopped after seeing its pointless as the mob would comeback to me anyway. this was a while back.
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Postby Bellic » Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:34 am

BoP is a great tool for those. And its sometimes funny to see that they don't know they can dispel it...
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Postby Elduril » Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:53 pm

I am always using Nature Enemy Castbar,since when tanking i never see at my target's portrait. And before 2.4 i was able to see when a warrior was taunting off me. Many times i've asked them in raid not to do it and save it for a clothie if i lost aggro.

With the new patch i can't,so i though my threat was just bad. But the dps was miles behind me, so i wasn't able to see what i am doing wrong.

As for the curator fight it was both his eager and my faulty use of the evocation stage.i want to try next week with him offtanking as well and see if he can pull it off again. Oh and yeah he is protection.

Well if he does manage to do it again. i think curator is the safest fight to BoP your OT :)
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Postby djellum » Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:55 am

My guilds only had 1 shot at curator so far, but we got him to 25% before some of our healers went oom. Me and the warr tank work great together, and Im very thankful for that.

It should be very easy for him to stay second on the list and still help dps the flares. we just had him dps the flares to help out and every other one he would come do a HS or update sunders or whatever warr's do to generate threat so that he stayed above healer threat. our dps isnt to the point we cant use the extra dmg and since warr's have uber single target threat he can stay way above the healers with minimal attention.
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Postby Holyfuri » Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:53 am

I have never actually used a hateful bolt soaker tank on curator. It doesn't hit that hard, we usually have a lock, shadow priest, or hunter just do a little bit of damage to curator off and on to stay second on aggro, and have him healed up by the group healers. The extra dps from only having one tank is worth it IMO.
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Postby Cosmoz » Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:10 pm

easy sulotion. dont bring a OT. IF you have a warrior with you, for god sake, tell him to dps, not to tank. IF he realy wanna do some tanking, he can help tank on moroes(not realy needed) and nether(can be solved without 2 tanks). if he steals agro from other trash and bosses....well.... /kick
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