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Heroic Black Morass - Last Boss and my gear

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Postby eXa » Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:42 am

If ur decent geared, id say: Tank everything.
Usually ends BM with 100% shield and all the beacons used on the last rift keepers just to speed it up abit more.
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Postby seregul » Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:48 pm

This past saturday I ran this in a pug and was unable to finish it. Made it as far as wave 14 in 2 attempts and then called it.

Here is my armory:

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Blade%27s+Edge&n=Seregul

I was reluctant to AoE tank the waves, but early on when I let the adds through, the healer generally ended up with aggro (still not sure how). So after a few waves of this I just grabbed the adds, like I do on normal. I was taking some pretty hefty hits, but nothing too crazy. I had to drink about every other wave.

So the obvious question is, can my gear handle this?

My other question involves the healer. Here is his armory:

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Blade%27s+Edge&n=Auexx

After every pull, this guy was OOM. Is 48 mp5 too low for an instance like heroic BM? What should I look for in terms of regen from a healer (I often overlook mp5 and go right for +heal when I check armories on pug healers)? On a sidenote, he kept that flute trinket equipped for the fight.
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Postby Aloette » Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:28 am

seregul wrote:This past saturday I ran this in a pug and was unable to finish it. Made it as far as wave 14 in 2 attempts and then called it.

Here is my armory:

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Blade%27s+Edge&n=Seregul

I was reluctant to AoE tank the waves, but early on when I let the adds through, the healer generally ended up with aggro (still not sure how). So after a few waves of this I just grabbed the adds, like I do on normal. I was taking some pretty hefty hits, but nothing too crazy. I had to drink about every other wave.

So the obvious question is, can my gear handle this?

My other question involves the healer. Here is his armory:

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Blade%27s+Edge&n=Auexx

After every pull, this guy was OOM. Is 48 mp5 too low for an instance like heroic BM? What should I look for in terms of regen from a healer (I often overlook mp5 and go right for +heal when I check armories on pug healers)? On a sidenote, he kept that flute trinket equipped for the fight.


What was causing you to wipe in wave 14? What was the full group makeup? Were the adds being killed quickly? Typically the waves from the 2nd to 3rd boss should be the easiest, as thats when you should be using your beacons.

As for the healer, I can't say I'm a fan of the way he/she has geared him/herself (a few PvP pieces), and 48mp5 unbuffed is actually quite atrocius, but he/she nearly has 1.9k healing. Personally, I would sacrifice a good chunk of those pure +healing gems for either hybrid heal/mana5 or straight mana/5, but I don't know a whole lot about paladin healing. It goes without saying that you have to question the healer for leaving the flute on, but forgetting to regear can happen to even the best of us, but you have to question the massive stacking of +healing, and complete disregard for mana regen. At the very least you would think that a healer would have two sets of gear, a +heal set for short fights and a mp5 set for longer fights.

However, I think more information on what was causing the wipes is needed to determine what exactly the problem is.
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Postby seregul » Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:55 am

Aloette wrote:
seregul wrote:This past saturday I ran this in a pug and was unable to finish it. Made it as far as wave 14 in 2 attempts and then called it.

Here is my armory:

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Blade%27s+Edge&n=Seregul

I was reluctant to AoE tank the waves, but early on when I let the adds through, the healer generally ended up with aggro (still not sure how). So after a few waves of this I just grabbed the adds, like I do on normal. I was taking some pretty hefty hits, but nothing too crazy. I had to drink about every other wave.

So the obvious question is, can my gear handle this?

My other question involves the healer. Here is his armory:

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Blade%27s+Edge&n=Auexx

After every pull, this guy was OOM. Is 48 mp5 too low for an instance like heroic BM? What should I look for in terms of regen from a healer (I often overlook mp5 and go right for +heal when I check armories on pug healers)? On a sidenote, he kept that flute trinket equipped for the fight.


What was causing you to wipe in wave 14? What was the full group makeup? Were the adds being killed quickly? Typically the waves from the 2nd to 3rd boss should be the easiest, as thats when you should be using your beacons.

As for the healer, I can't say I'm a fan of the way he/she has geared him/herself (a few PvP pieces), and 48mp5 unbuffed is actually quite atrocius, but he/she nearly has 1.9k healing. Personally, I would sacrifice a good chunk of those pure +healing gems for either hybrid heal/mana5 or straight mana/5, but I don't know a whole lot about paladin healing. It goes without saying that you have to question the healer for leaving the flute on, but forgetting to regear can happen to even the best of us, but you have to question the massive stacking of +healing, and complete disregard for mana regen. At the very least you would think that a healer would have two sets of gear, a +heal set for short fights and a mp5 set for longer fights.

However, I think more information on what was causing the wipes is needed to determine what exactly the problem is.


Group was me, dps warrior, hunter, lock, and holy pally. Early on, we were able to burn down the rift lords/keepers and the adds pretty quick, with no overlap in portals. Around wave 9 or 10, the dps warrior died and shortly after that the lock DC'd, so we had to use some beacons to compensate. Lock returned for 2nd boss, which we downed without trouble. At this point the shield was kinda low. It took awhile to leave combat after wave 13, so holy paladin wasn't at full mana when I engaged. It was a mistake on my part, but the shield was in the low 30's and a few adds had already got through at the point I aggroed the rift lord. I felt if I waited much longer we would start to see overlap in portals. On the 2nd attempt we made it to the 2nd boss and wiped. The boss reset at about 30% due to being too far from the portal (completely my fault, I didn't re-position properly after the knockbacks). Otherwise, the 2nd attempt was alright. We slowed the pace a tad, so there was more damage to the shield than I would have liked, but we had all our beacons. After that we called it.
Deviate by all means in name,
cuz we all crawl in quicksand the same.
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Postby Sithy » Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:03 am

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that the portals no longer could overlap and that it was just one after another. This was after the progressive nerfs to Black Morass over patchs 2.1 and 2.2 iirc.

Or did they just make the timer so long I've yet to see an overlap since?
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Postby Aloette » Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:52 pm

Well, the first attempt was just bad luck with the disconnection, although the warrior shouldn't have died. You can get away without beacons between the second and third boss on a non-heroic, but it's a lot harder on a heroic.

The second attempt was simply your fault for not repositioning the boss.

When the tank and healer are decked out in epics (for the most part), gear is probably the least of your worries, even if there are a few questionable gear/gem/enchant choices. Remember, people were doing heroics long before everyone was decked out in Kara/T6 epics.
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Postby Woden » Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:25 pm

Lalecize wrote:I tried it last night with a priest in dungeon blues....wasn't happening.


I doubt the heroic instances were designed to have people wear better gear than dungeon blues.
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Postby ldeboer » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:21 pm

Woden wrote:
Lalecize wrote:I tried it last night with a priest in dungeon blues....wasn't happening.


I doubt the heroic instances were designed to have people wear better gear than dungeon blues.


ROFL ... NO!!

We used to do them in all blues cause we couldn't get povo epics handed out like lolly's and the instances were alot harder than the nerfed version now.

Back in them dim dark days we needed our T3a or T3b's to even start Kara.

The difference was you had to get a very precise party mix and even then you expected to wipe a few times.

The problem it lead too was mages and warlocks were in high demand for heroic runs. Ask a rogue, shaman or dps warrior how many heroic runs they got asked on back then.

On my mage I did SSC attunement run through heroic SH in the required 90min in nothing but blues because my spellfire set did not have enough stamina to cut it .... Oh but you would ask what SSC attunement
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Postby Ciandin » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:11 am

I probably started running heroics on my rogue 3 or 4 months after the expansion hit, and it was a bitch finding a group. I ended up making groups myself because most pugs wanted 2 mages. That's when I pretty much gave up on my rogue and started leveling my pally from 55 -> 70.
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Postby Aloette » Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:05 pm

Woden wrote:
Lalecize wrote:I tried it last night with a priest in dungeon blues....wasn't happening.


I doubt the heroic instances were designed to have people wear better gear than dungeon blues.


Exactly. All heroics are doable with a full, balanced, group in dungeon blues, so long as the group has put the effort into enchanting and properly gemming their gear.

Remember, when heroics were first being done people weren't running around with full T6. Now people have just come to expect people of each class to have specific (and often unrealistic) stats in order to trivialize the difficulty of a heroic dungeon.
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Postby GothicPL » Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:04 pm

Aloette wrote:
Woden wrote:
Lalecize wrote:I tried it last night with a priest in dungeon blues....wasn't happening.


I doubt the heroic instances were designed to have people wear better gear than dungeon blues.


Exactly. All heroics are doable with a full, balanced, group in dungeon blues, so long as the group has put the effort into enchanting and properly gemming their gear.

Remember, when heroics were first being done people weren't running around with full T6. Now people have just come to expect people of each class to have specific (and often unrealistic) stats in order to trivialize the difficulty of a heroic dungeon.


I agree, people are starting to get very lazy about heroics because it's so easy to outgear them these days using badge and PvP gear.

A couple of nights ago, a "LF1M DPS heroic SP" query yielded a mage with only +335 :shock: spell damage, wearing a mix of greens and S1 epics, all ungemmed and unenchanted... Heck, my pally tank has more spell damage than that even in the max mitigation boss tanking outfit. After I explained the mage that he is undergeared for a heroic, he said "whatever I've done this before" and left by himself. I'd rather four man an instance than give unmotivated players free rides like that.

I agree that most heroics are doable in instance blues with a skilled group of people who know what PvE is.

One minor thing I may not agree with you is feasiblity of heroic Magister's Terrace with a healer wearing only blues. On many fights there is just too much damage flying around to make it possible, and the arena fight requires different gear than PvE blues.
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Postby Aloette » Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:10 pm

GothicPL wrote:
Aloette wrote:
Woden wrote:
Lalecize wrote:I tried it last night with a priest in dungeon blues....wasn't happening.


I doubt the heroic instances were designed to have people wear better gear than dungeon blues.


Exactly. All heroics are doable with a full, balanced, group in dungeon blues, so long as the group has put the effort into enchanting and properly gemming their gear.

Remember, when heroics were first being done people weren't running around with full T6. Now people have just come to expect people of each class to have specific (and often unrealistic) stats in order to trivialize the difficulty of a heroic dungeon.


I agree, people are starting to get very lazy about heroics because it's so easy to outgear them these days using badge and PvP gear.

A couple of nights ago, a "LF1M DPS heroic SP" query yielded a mage with only +335 :shock: spell damage, wearing a mix of greens and S1 epics, all ungemmed and unenchanted... Heck, my pally tank has more spell damage than that even in the max mitigation boss tanking outfit. After I explained the mage that he is undergeared for a heroic, he said "whatever I've done this before" and left by himself. I'd rather four man an instance than give unmotivated players free rides like that.

I agree that most heroics are doable in instance blues with a skilled group of people who know what PvE is.

One minor thing I may not agree with you is feasiblity of heroic Magister's Terrace with a healer wearing only blues. On many fights there is just too much damage flying around to make it possible, and the arena fight requires different gear than PvE blues.


Well heroic MGT is a bit different. It hasn't been nerfed to hell, and it's balanced around the players having a bit of raid gear and experience. Other heroics aren't.

Otherwise, I agree with you 100%
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Postby Moses » Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:34 pm

Yeah it's a healer issue IMO. I did heroic MgT with a Shadow Priest spec healing last week. He was really well geared, some MH/BT gear but unfortunately we wiped so much on the 3rd boss/kael that we had to drop a bot to finish the run. Now I don't mind wiping don't get me wrong but I don't come to heroic MgT holy specced saying I'm ready to tank.

At one point he blamed it on me (since I'm only in kara level gear) and it took all I had not to ditch the group. On the other hand if he had his normal black temple raid main tank to heal maybe he could have gotten away with it. Maybe your overgeared shaman that specced ele just wearing his resto gear was in the same boat. He may have been used to healing a tank who grossely overgeared the encounter.

In the end it's his fault for your wipes IMO.
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Postby Robin de tolens » Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:51 am

I'm a priest healer who discovered these forums since I rolled Protadin (After a healer and a dps, it was the last thing missing ^^). I got to the Black Morass HM for the first time a few days ago and it was a piece of cake, as easy as the normal mode. Even if you, the tankadin, finish the fight oom, you really have more than enough time to drink and eat before the next wave ; me, I'm a priest, I don't drink unless there's a mage in the party =P
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