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Regular BM

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Regular BM

Postby Supernose » Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:03 am

I tried to tank regular BM the other day, and failed miserably. I've never before had trouble holding aggro, if someone got feisty, I'd ask them to back off a bit(Mages and Warlocks are two good examples), and salv anyone who needed it. But so long as the healer kept me alive, we were good. Well, this go around, I dunno what it was, but I couldn't keep the rift lords on me to save my life. It was me, a PVP Pally healer, two rogues, and a Hunter for adds. I salved both rogues and one or the other ALWAYS pulled pretty quick, and they both said they were holding back. Then on top of it, I couldn't tank Temporus either. I would always die. It was like this fully epicced PVP(granted I know not PVE, but I've seen PVP healer's do good in PVE), couldn't keep me alive. Am I missing something, doing something wrong, or was it just a bad group make up?
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Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:50 am

Mana is an issue and everyone should know you have to take your few seconds before each fight if it's necessary. They have a huge aggro radius and therefore you should always be the puller.
Don'tp ut hunter on adds-only... Stay between the portal and medivh and the mobs beeline over your consecration(downranking is godly here). If you have the libram of divine purpose, use it and downranked consecration. They shouldn't worry with mobs until you have a few on you. Being hit always helps your mana =D

For temporus...Arcane shot dispels his attack speed buff...that alone should make the fight much easier. He does a "wound poison" debuff that stacks on you as he attacks, it's an avoidance fight for the tank =)
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Postby Willy-Willy » Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:18 am

First time I did BM - normal mode - I had a healer who normally did Heroics, but needed rep with Caverns of Time; almost all of the instance, the ride went smooth... I informed my party members that I need to charge at a wave with full mana, to be an effective AoE tank (I couldn't picture leaving trash - worth their weight in gold for any tankadin - to a DPS). Everything, until Temporus... Maybe it was a bug, maybe I was undergeared, maybe it was bad luck... I got 7 (SEVEN) debuff stacks, each applied when the others had 2, maybe 3 seconds until they faded away. The healer - a shaman - was throwing all he had at me, but the debuff stack made heals look like Linen Bandages. At about 60-65% of Temporus' HP, he said "dude, just die... I'll be OOM soon; let the druid tank". I didn't have much of a choice there, so I kicked the bucket and the druid bear stepped in - it took a little longer, with only 2 other DPS, but I never saw that debuff stack more than 4 times on the druid.

Ever since that first time, I never had the debuff stack more than 4 times either. I tend to see it as bad luck - Blizz does say the bosses have CDs on spells/abilities, but don't necessarily use them whenever possible. Other than Temporus, I had no issues with this instance.

What you should try, given good gear and some disciplined party members, is to always drink between waves, mount up with the aura and rush the portal just as the first adds are spawning - so you can make full use of AS -, and try not to let any mob past you... They'll most likely complain you are stalling and two waves will likely overlap and wipe the party, but having full mana gives you enough consecration spells to mop up the adds, while allowing your DPS to constantly hit the Rift Lord/Keeper/Bosses.
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Re: Regular BM

Postby solina » Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:42 am

Supernose wrote:I tried to tank regular BM the other day, and failed miserably. I've never before had trouble holding aggro, if someone got feisty, I'd ask them to back off a bit(Mages and Warlocks are two good examples), and salv anyone who needed it. But so long as the healer kept me alive, we were good. Well, this go around, I dunno what it was, but I couldn't keep the rift lords on me to save my life. It was me, a PVP Pally healer, two rogues, and a Hunter for adds. I salved both rogues and one or the other ALWAYS pulled pretty quick, and they both said they were holding back. Then on top of it, I couldn't tank Temporus either. I would always die. It was like this fully epicced PVP(granted I know not PVE, but I've seen PVP healer's do good in PVE), couldn't keep me alive. Am I missing something, doing something wrong, or was it just a bad group make up?


Dude, this sounds a lot like you didn't have RF up :)

I tanked BM very successfuly at 69 with almost nothing on the gear-up list. Two main keys:
- Keep consecrate down - #1 priority. You WANT the adds on you, to get the heals, to get mana. (I've since created a /castsequence macro for Rank 6 - Rank 4 - Rank 4 - Rank 4.)
- Drink up to nearly-full between rifts. Ask the dps to herd up stray adds while you mana up. But make sure they don't pull the rift lord.

On temporus I switched from Sanc to Kings, and from Ret aura to Devo aura.. and took a mad alchemist's pot, and used a fel blossom.. and soon it was all over. I never saw what my max stack was, but it had to be at least 5, my total pure avoidance (dodge+parry+miss) was around 25%.

Anyone remember when the debuff stacked to 10? 100% healing reduction FTW..
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Postby Kelaan » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:37 am

Willy-Willy wrote: I got 7 (SEVEN) debuff stacks, each applied when the others had 2, maybe 3 seconds until they faded away. The healer - a shaman - was throwing all he had at me, but the debuff stack made heals look like Linen Bandages. At about 60-65% of Temporus' HP, he said "dude, just die... I'll be OOM soon; let the druid tank". I didn't have much of a choice there, so I kicked the bucket and the druid bear stepped in - it took a little longer, with only 2 other DPS, but I never saw that debuff stack more than 4 times on the druid.


Am I incorrect in thinking that you can bubble out of the debuff? (Speaking of, I need to write that /cancel-then-cast macro for it). If so, then in the worst case, the druid would have ended up tanking for those 8ish seconds while you bandage, whereas in the best case you get a momentary threat hiccup (and probably need to burn some cooldowns to re-dump some threat on him).
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Postby Lookit » Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:05 pm

Kelaan wrote:Am I incorrect in thinking that you can bubble out of the debuff? (Speaking of, I need to write that /cancel-then-cast macro for it). If so, then in the worst case, the druid would have ended up tanking for those 8ish seconds while you bandage, whereas in the best case you get a momentary threat hiccup (and probably need to burn some cooldowns to re-dump some threat on him).


My experience has been that you *cannot* bubble out of the debuff, which is really odd. I use a /cancelaura macro to bubble and then immediately remove the bubble, and it does not remove the debuff. Avoidance ftw in this fight.
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Postby Ciandin » Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:19 pm

You can't bubble to remove the debuff, but you can bubble to avoid it refreshing. Have fun with that one though :P
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Postby Kelaan » Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:45 pm

Ciandin wrote:You can't bubble to remove the debuff, but you can bubble to avoid it refreshing. Have fun with that one though :P


Haha, no kidding. OK, good to know, thanks. Do blocks prevent it from affecting you, or only true avoidance? The Wowhead article seems to indicate that blocks should prevent it, but ... I had holy shield up quite a bit and still had some debuffs on me (I think 3-4?). Perhaps just a combo of bad luck.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:15 pm

Like many physical abilities, only a full block will stop it, partials won't. Avoidance is the way to go.
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Re: Regular BM

Postby Supernose » Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:21 pm

solina wrote:
Supernose wrote:I tried to tank regular BM the other day, and failed miserably. I've never before had trouble holding aggro, if someone got feisty, I'd ask them to back off a bit(Mages and Warlocks are two good examples), and salv anyone who needed it. But so long as the healer kept me alive, we were good. Well, this go around, I dunno what it was, but I couldn't keep the rift lords on me to save my life. It was me, a PVP Pally healer, two rogues, and a Hunter for adds. I salved both rogues and one or the other ALWAYS pulled pretty quick, and they both said they were holding back. Then on top of it, I couldn't tank Temporus either. I would always die. It was like this fully epicced PVP(granted I know not PVE, but I've seen PVP healer's do good in PVE), couldn't keep me alive. Am I missing something, doing something wrong, or was it just a bad group make up?


Dude, this sounds a lot like you didn't have RF up :)

I tanked BM very successfuly at 69 with almost nothing on the gear-up list. Two main keys:
- Keep consecrate down - #1 priority. You WANT the adds on you, to get the heals, to get mana. (I've since created a /castsequence macro for Rank 6 - Rank 4 - Rank 4 - Rank 4.)
- Drink up to nearly-full between rifts. Ask the dps to herd up stray adds while you mana up. But make sure they don't pull the rift lord.

On temporus I switched from Sanc to Kings, and from Ret aura to Devo aura.. and took a mad alchemist's pot, and used a fel blossom.. and soon it was all over. I never saw what my max stack was, but it had to be at least 5, my total pure avoidance (dodge+parry+miss) was around 25%.

Anyone remember when the debuff stacked to 10? 100% healing reduction FTW..


That was the first thing I checked was making sure I had RF up. I've been a dumbass and forgotten it from time to time, but I definitely had it up. I'm thinking maybe it was me not having the adds on me. I spent most of the time pulling with JoR, and tanking with Seal of Vengeance, judging it whenever Judge was off CD. Rarely did I use consecrate. Also, dunno if it makes much of a difference, but when I died, I wasn't OOM at all, although I didn't realize Temporus had a debuff. Always good to know.

Thanks a lot for the tips guys. Hopefully next time I throw down in BM I'm gonna whip some ass!
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Re: Regular BM

Postby guillex » Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:48 pm

Supernose wrote:Rarely did I use consecrate.


Bad. Badbadbadbadbadbad.

Downrank it if you need to, but be using consecrate.
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Postby Supernose » Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:36 pm

Lol Guillex makes me feel like a dog who piddled on the carpet.

Anyways, I figured out what my problem was. I grabbed sucky healers. Got a healer from the guild, and wham bam thank you ma'am, BM was over quickly. One easy instance if you've got the right stuff. Thanks for all the advice though, definitely helped out.
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Postby Robin de tolens » Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:46 am

PvP sets suck. More even suck PvPers with no experience when they go into dungeons.
PvP sets suck. More even suck PvPers with no experience when they go into dungeons.
PvP sets suck. More even suck PvPers with no experience when they go into dungeons.
PvP sets suck. More even suck PvPers with no experience when they go into dungeons.

Honestly, except that damn debuff Temporus stacks, Heroic Black Morass is a piece of cake. So regular BM should be just boring. You just need to be with people with a minimum of skill and you won't even have to use your chrono beacons at all.
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Re: Regular BM

Postby ldeboer » Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:24 pm

Supernose wrote:I tried to tank regular BM the other day, and failed miserably. I've never before had trouble holding aggro, if someone got feisty, I'd ask them to back off a bit(Mages and Warlocks are two good examples), and salv anyone who needed it. But so long as the healer kept me alive, we were good. Well, this go around, I dunno what it was, but I couldn't keep the rift lords on me to save my life. It was me, a PVP Pally healer, two rogues, and a Hunter for adds. I salved both rogues and one or the other ALWAYS pulled pretty quick, and they both said they were holding back. Then on top of it, I couldn't tank Temporus either. I would always die. It was like this fully epicced PVP(granted I know not PVE, but I've seen PVP healer's do good in PVE), couldn't keep me alive. Am I missing something, doing something wrong, or was it just a bad group make up?


I hope your sigs wrong cause at 97 spell dmg you wont hold anything :)

As for debuff kite Temporus you walk backwards in a circle infront of the portal. The debuff wears off the more walking he does its alot like walking the void 3rd boss in slabs you have to hold agro but walk him.
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Re: Regular BM

Postby Supernose » Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:33 pm

ldeboer wrote:
Supernose wrote:I tried to tank regular BM the other day, and failed miserably. I've never before had trouble holding aggro, if someone got feisty, I'd ask them to back off a bit(Mages and Warlocks are two good examples), and salv anyone who needed it. But so long as the healer kept me alive, we were good. Well, this go around, I dunno what it was, but I couldn't keep the rift lords on me to save my life. It was me, a PVP Pally healer, two rogues, and a Hunter for adds. I salved both rogues and one or the other ALWAYS pulled pretty quick, and they both said they were holding back. Then on top of it, I couldn't tank Temporus either. I would always die. It was like this fully epicced PVP(granted I know not PVE, but I've seen PVP healer's do good in PVE), couldn't keep me alive. Am I missing something, doing something wrong, or was it just a bad group make up?


I hope your sigs wrong cause at 97 spell dmg you wont hold anything :)

As for debuff kite Temporus you walk backwards in a circle infront of the portal. The debuff wears off the more walking he does its alot like walking the void 3rd boss in slabs you have to hold agro but walk him.


Yeah, my Sig isn't up to date. Right now I'm sitting at 204SD.
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