Imp SoR vs Reckoning

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Postby Phasek » Sun Jul 22, 2007 9:05 pm

Druski wrote:Phasek, I am impressed with your number crunching, but am curious to know how another spec would rate up against your several you've already posted.

currently I am specced with reckoning as well as improved seal of righteousness. A respectable spec, but as we see here, could be improved upon. In that line of thought, I glanced over at the ret tree, and am wondering if those 10 holy points were spent elsewhere, how things would stack up.

here's my thought: (no longer having divine int and imp SoR, while maintaining reckoning)

2/2 improved judgement
3/5 1h weapon spec
3/3 (here's my big question) vindication
2/2 eye for an eye (because im dying to have that for my occasional pvp)

clearly the eye for an eye isnt helping much for threat, and I could put those 2 points in 1h spec, but primairly I am wondering if the vindication (when it procs) having the lowered str may result in reducing damage taken, and the lowered agil reducing the enemy's dodge (which in turn may be a reverse-effect percision skill, but benefits an entire raid)

So i guess im hoping to see numbers for all of that and probably want to see the numbers if i had a full 5v5 1h, to know what i'd be giving up for pvp. if you decide to pull out your calculator for all this, i'd be grateful.

The problem with the numbers that I crunched earlier is that they dont give 1h weapon spec its full effect. 1h weapon spec will also increase consecration damage, holy shield damage, etc. From an overall perspective, it would be very difficult to justify not having 5/5 1h weapon specialization, which is probably the best 5 point talent for threat that we have. My numbers I crunched stressed the melee and seal/judgement perspective of fighting by itself. I focused on that portion of the fight alone since the focus of the thread was reckoning and seal of righteousness, with both work exclusively in the realm of melee combat.

Vindication would *by far* be the best 3 talents that prot paladins could get their hands on if it worked. However, any difficult mob that you'd wish vindication on will be immune to it, making it virtually worthless for pve encounters. I tend to view vindication as a piece of pvp candy. To answer your question, what you're giving up by sacrificing 2 points in 1h weapon specialization is exactly 2% of your total threat, since the talent affects all of the damage you deal.

If you want me to calculate something that's more specific, you may need to try asking again. That's the best I can get out of what I read, sorry.
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Postby Avercry » Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:00 am

another thing to be thinking about: (Alliance anyway, sorry Belfs)

SoVengeance was pretty hard to work with in tanking the way I used to use it. I would usually start out with AS and Judge Righteousness then smack a few times with Veng and hope for a bit of a stack before switching to SoR. (my wep was way too fast for this and gave up on it, also very angering to see the stack fall off)

However with the new 15second Vengeance and with the new slow (2.7?) spell damage mace from Arena (finally) I think this strategy is much better than it once was. --> Get a few swings in, switch to SoR for 10 seconds, SoV to refresh etc.

Vindication- completely awesome idea, but completely useless where it really counts. (like Ret paladins actually being in raids)

As for Imp Righteousness, while I love this spell and would love to see it used, it is just simply too expensive to get to imo. Too many points are required already to tank with any thoughts of effectiveness.


Another sad truth is that we are backsliding again into where we were with Redoubt and Reckoning working off taking a crit. (I.E. useless as you become crit immune) As gear gets better and better the chances of actually proccing Redoubt and Reckoning lessens. %50 chance to miss --> %5 for Reckoning, as your miss gets higher Reckoning gets lower. SO there IS a place and time when Imp SoR will be better than Reck and worth the points to get if you get your %miss up high enough.

-Avercry Tankadin from release, finally retired due to Bliz's bull$hit.

P.S. dont armory me, gave my account to the guild and I hate to see myself marked holy... =[
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