Tnedra Rednefed?

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, theckhd

Tnedra Rednefed?

Postby Joanadark » Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:21 pm

What if they flipped Ardent Defender around?

Ardent Defender
Reduces all damage taken by 50% when the paladin is above 90% health.



Now, numbers would need to be adjusted so that it isnt OP, but if you make it so that AD worked from the TOP instead of the BOTTOM of your health pool...
Arkham's Razor: a theory which states the simplest explaination tends to lead to Cthulu.
Joanadark
 
Posts: 3087
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 7:09 pm

Postby Kvaern » Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:42 pm

I predict mana starvation.
Image
Kvaern
 
Posts: 509
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:45 pm

Postby Tumeric » Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:38 pm

agreed and honestly i am not always capped above 90% hp as well as first hit or 2 drops that 10% anyway.

And i have geared more avoidance/def rating and now i am starving for mana with a 5.4k pool so i could only imagine this making me OOM in first half of the pull.
Image
Tumeric
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:26 am

Postby Lore » Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:21 pm

My biggest concern with AD being at the top of the HP pool is the relationship between it and healers. I could easily see a lot of "You took a big hit and then took a lot more damage really fast" situations.
User avatar
Lore
Global Mod
 
Posts: 7757
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:52 am

Postby Phaex » Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:21 pm

there was a nice suggestion on the official boards by someone

make AD a buff. If you drop below 35% health, the next 2 incoming attacks are reduced by 30%, lasts 5 seconds.

Kinda like that, it'd solve all our problems and would make the whole world live together in peace too. Isn't that great ?
Image
Phaex
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:25 am
Location: Germany

Postby Pulire » Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:20 pm

Phaex wrote:there was a nice suggestion on the official boards by someone

make AD a buff. If you drop below 35% health, the next 2 incoming attacks are reduced by 30%, lasts 5 seconds.

Kinda like that, it'd solve all our problems and would make the whole world live together in peace too. Isn't that great ?


Seems weaker than it's current incarnation. It'd still be leapfroggable, it wouldn't save us from death anymore than the current, it only makes healing slightly easier. Even then, having only effect two attacks deters from our current focus as tanks, fast hitters and aoe pulls. Plus, when I PvP as prot I like being the shield walled healer. :lol:
Image
Pulire
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:37 pm

Postby Daedallus » Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:38 am

I'm a big fan of AD right now. on anything other than a raid boss it is has significant use. against bosses outside of kharazan, its not normally going to save your life.

but i tank a lot of things that are not Grull, or mobs inside of BT. And i can tell you that it has averted certain death and raid wipe several times, in heroics and in KZ, against not only packs of mobs, but the bosses as well. I get remarks from healers all the time saying " your health loss just seemed to go into slow motion, i thought you were dead for sure"

I know this is Maintankadin, but every skill in our tree does not have to have a direct affect on every single encounter.
Image
Daedallus
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 1:32 pm

Postby Baelor » Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:17 am

Daedallus wrote:I'm a big fan of AD right now. on anything other than a raid boss it is has significant use. against bosses outside of kharazan, its not normally going to save your life.

but i tank a lot of things that are not Grull, or mobs inside of BT. And i can tell you that it has averted certain death and raid wipe several times, in heroics and in KZ, against not only packs of mobs, but the bosses as well. I get remarks from healers all the time saying " your health loss just seemed to go into slow motion, i thought you were dead for sure"

I know this is Maintankadin, but every skill in our tree does not have to have a direct affect on every single encounter.

Nice sig pic, Daedallus, go go Captain Avenger!

The way AD works right now, I agree, is not good for raid bosses. But, if you're tanking adds, or 5-mans, or trash, or *anything* besides a raid boss that's swinging for 4-5k plus and can crush if you're not careful, then it does often come into play, and will save your life. It's great for multi-mob tanking, since those often hit for less and therefore have a harder time leapfrogging the AD start-point.
I am the light that brings the dawn.
Something Wicked this way comes.
Formerly: Baelor of Runetotem-US (2006-2007) | Cathmor of Malfurion-US (2007-2010)
Follow me on Twitter
User avatar
Baelor
Moderator
 
Posts: 2677
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:42 am
Location: New York

Postby Daedallus » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:39 pm

thanks :) i figure i've got the shield throw, might as well embrace it. Just need to get the t4 spandex changed from purple to blue and red and we are all set.
Image
Daedallus
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 1:32 pm

Postby Sabindeus » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:50 pm

Charging Star!
Image
Turn In, an NPC interaction automator - http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addo ... rn-in.aspx
User avatar
Sabindeus
Moderator
 
Posts: 10476
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 9:24 am

Postby Pulire » Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:31 pm

Daedallus wrote:thanks :) i figure i've got the shield throw, might as well embrace it. Just need to get the t4 spandex changed from purple to blue and red and we are all set.


Everyone calls us Captain America because of the shield, though, I prefer the thought of it taking over 60 years to kill me.
Image
Pulire
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:37 pm

Postby Fridmarr » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:20 am

Baelor wrote:Nice sig pic, Daedallus, go go Captain Avenger!

The way AD works right now, I agree, is not good for raid bosses. But, if you're tanking adds, or 5-mans, or trash, or *anything* besides a raid boss that's swinging for 4-5k plus and can crush if you're not careful, then it does often come into play, and will save your life. It's great for multi-mob tanking, since those often hit for less and therefore have a harder time leapfrogging the AD start-point.


The AD discussion is actually a bit funny. It is a very powerful talent in its current form. However, it is yet another skill, that is best for dealing with multiple low hitting mobs. Add to that redoubt, 8 charges of Holy Shield, and even Reckoning and you have a very solid AOE tank. The problem is, while we may see some benefit from these skills on bosses, it's rather situational. Some folks like to MT or at least be an option for MTing on encounters. There are actually folks who wouldn't mind if AD was essentially nerfed overall as long as it had some predicitible effect on the big hitting bosses.

Remember when 2.1 came out the response to blizz was (Megor's Post) something along the lines of "Blizz to pallys, you are a niche tank".
Fridmarr
Global Mod
 
Posts: 9669
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am

Postby Sloath » Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:42 am

I've given a little thought to the function of AD, there are a couple threads here that lend themselves to its discussion on these boards. My personal feeling is that if the damage reduction were actually spread out our entire HP pool, rather than lumped at the end of it, it may actually be more beneficial.

Say for example if DR%/HP% looked something like this (I've done zero math.. its just a thought at this point):

0%DR/ 100-90%HP
5%DR/ 90-70%HP
10%DR/ 70-50%HP
20%DR/ 50-30%HP
30%DR/ 30-00%HP

Please don't take the numbers as actual figures, its merely the structure I'd personally like to see for AD, keeping the reduction spread throughout the entire HP pool.
User avatar
Sloath
 
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:18 am

Postby Mortehl » Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:57 am

This debate about AD makes me chuckle.

I tried tanking Gruul and Mag without it one night... Lets just say that this indispensable and underrated talent will not be left out of my spec in the near future.

Funny thing about having 18.5k raid buffed HP in my mitigation ohshit don't pwn me gear.... It adds another 1950 HP.. Also funny how I seem to die less with it.

And then there's another shot in there about Holy shield I noticed in this thread. You've never tanked Morogrim have you? He hits like a truck and he hits fast. That whole encounter was designed to be double tanked by 2 paladins.
Arthas, we're coming for you. (Eventually)
Mortehl
Moderator
 
Posts: 1289
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:25 am
Location: Naxx 10 prepping for Naxx 25

Postby Fridmarr » Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:04 pm

Mortehl wrote:And then there's another shot in there about Holy shield I noticed in this thread. You've never tanked Morogrim have you? He hits like a truck and he hits fast. That whole encounter was designed to be double tanked by 2 paladins.


Since I'm the only one who mentioned Holy Shield, I assume that is meant for me. Your example only adds to my logic though, as that would indeed be situational for 25 man bosses and excellent for handling multiple mobs. I wasn't suggesting that imp holy shield was not a good talent.
Fridmarr
Global Mod
 
Posts: 9669
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am

Next

Return to Advanced Theorycraft and Calculations

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: theckhd and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: theckhd and 1 guest