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Am I right...

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Am I right...

Postby Mishdorf » Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:59 pm

Am I right to get angry when I see a "pally" plate item drop which has spell damage on it instead of extra stamina, defense, dodge or block rating or do paladins actually need spell damage on their non-weapon gear for threat?

The reason that I ask is that I go the T4 gloves the other day from kara and they actually had worse uncrushabillity stats than my low-quality gemmed gauntlets of the bold. The only real advantage they had over the gauntlets was the spell damage.

I ask this because in my mind a tank needs stamina, mitigation and avoidance and paladins seem to have enough threat in most cases anyway.

I'm not yet uncrushable, and when epic gear drops for me, I expect it to help me get uncrushable or further enhance my tanking ability. These items don't really seem to be doing that.

You can check my gear here:

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... &n=Orgaria

I'm sitting around 10% away from uncrushable (in 3 badges time I'll be 5%).

cheers,

Mishdorf
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Postby Ryoku » Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:05 am

in Kara you don´t need any more SD then the weapon more or less.

But as higher you go and the more dps your raid get the more SD you need to keep tps high
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Postby Nicki » Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:31 am

when you hit later t5 content your threat will face issues if you dont get +dmg on gear..
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Postby Yinramu » Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:15 am

It's all about options. If you aren't at the uncrushable point, don't wear those gauntlets yet.

Eventually, you might hit a point where you have enough dodge/block/parry/miss to consider swapping things out for a bit more threat, or a bit more stamina. At that point you may look at those gauntlets in a completely different light.

There's a reason why most of the Paladins here probably don't have much bag/bank space... options.
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yep

Postby Mavrix » Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:18 am

Basically your spell damage has to scale up in parallel with your dps team's gear and output.
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Postby Wingi » Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:23 am

For now, you are to get as much avoidance as you can, since a caster weapon provides enough spell damage.

Later, since your dps friends will get more and more stuff, their dps will increase accordingly. And so will their threat.
So, in order to keep up, you will go for +SD gear.

And since you cannot hope to get as much avoidance and stamina as a warrior and get extra-threat ... Obviously you get less tank-related stats on pally items ^^
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Re: Am I right...

Postby guillex » Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:15 am

Mishdorf wrote:Am I right to get angry when I see a "pally" plate item drop which has spell damage on it instead of extra stamina, defense, dodge or block rating or do paladins actually need spell damage on their non-weapon gear for threat?


Not really... Plate items are itemized differently. There's spelldamage/healing plate, there's "tanking" plate, and there's DPS plate.

Pally plate is a myth, really ... We don't have very well itemized choices of gear, so we're forced to gear a little like a warrior (minus stacking strength/hit rating/expertise), and a little like a dps plate wearing mage/lock/spriest/etc.

Mishdorf wrote:The reason that I ask is that I go the T4 gloves the other day from kara and they actually had worse uncrushabillity stats than my low-quality gemmed gauntlets of the bold. The only real advantage they had over the gauntlets was the spell damage.


Oh, I have no doubt that they're further down in the uncrushable realm than the Bold, or the Righteous, gloves. If you look around on the site, most people agree that T4 is good for a threat set ... and even then, the gloves are terribad.

Mishdorf wrote:I ask this because in my mind a tank needs stamina, mitigation and avoidance and paladins seem to have enough threat in most cases anyway.


Paladins will have enough threat through T4 content with a 121 + 40sd weapon. T5 gets a bit shakier, but you should be in badge gear by then, with your spelldamage hitting the 3-400 mark from gear and consumables. We do need stamina/mitigation/avoidance. It's more of a question of what do we stack for what situations. Which is why you'll see most, if not all, paladin tanks walking around with different sets of gear (usually just a couple of slot changes per set).

Effective Health set.
Pure Avoidance set. (also known as the MT set, along with the above)
Mitigation/Block set. (also known as the trash/aoe set)
Healing set.
lolDPS set.
Farming set.

It's all situational ... and you really have to keep that in mind.

Mishdorf wrote:I'm not yet uncrushable, and when epic gear drops for me, I expect it to help me get uncrushable or further enhance my tanking ability. These items don't really seem to be doing that.


Kara ... really is lacking in the paladin tank-esque gear department. Farm badges, do Heroics, wait 'till T5 content.

Also, ZA is full of great pally gear. The T4 shoulders are also pretty damned hawt.

Mishdorf wrote:You can check my gear here:

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... &n=Orgaria

I'm sitting around 10% away from uncrushable (in 3 badges time I'll be 5%).

cheers,

Mishdorf


1. Get rid of your +9 gems.
2. Get Bracers of the Green Fortress crafted.
3. Get rid of your +sd gems... That will help you reach uncrushable.
4. Looks like you've gone Aldor ... GRIND REP WITH THEM. The Vindicator's Hauberk with a +defense or even +150 health enchant on it will do so much better for you than the Righteous chest.
5. If you can, run Botanica and hope that Laj drops you the D3 shoulders. They're a lot better than the Mantle you're wearing.
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Re: Am I right...

Postby Mishdorf » Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:48 am

Guillex wrote:
1. Get rid of your +9 gems.
2. Get Bracers of the Green Fortress crafted.
3. Get rid of your +sd gems... That will help you reach uncrushable.
4. Looks like you've gone Aldor ... GRIND REP WITH THEM. The Vindicator's Hauberk with a +defense or even +150 health enchant on it will do so much better for you than the Righteous chest.
5. If you can, run Botanica and hope that Laj drops you the D3 shoulders. They're a lot better than the Mantle you're wearing.


Yeah every single one of these things is on my list of things to do. However cost is the real issue. I only hit 70 recently and have been trying to gear up as fast as I can by instancing for the most part. Grinding rep with aldor is next on my priority list.
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Re: Am I right...

Postby guillex » Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:50 am

Mishdorf wrote:
Guillex wrote:
1. Get rid of your +9 gems.
2. Get Bracers of the Green Fortress crafted.
3. Get rid of your +sd gems... That will help you reach uncrushable.
4. Looks like you've gone Aldor ... GRIND REP WITH THEM. The Vindicator's Hauberk with a +defense or even +150 health enchant on it will do so much better for you than the Righteous chest.
5. If you can, run Botanica and hope that Laj drops you the D3 shoulders. They're a lot better than the Mantle you're wearing.


Yeah every single one of these things is on my list of things to do. However cost is the real issue. I only hit 70 recently and have been trying to gear up as fast as I can by instancing for the most part. Grinding rep with aldor is next on my priority list.


I kinda hoped you'd say that! Means that you're aware of where you're at, and where you have to go. Which is good.

I hope you saved up your Netherstorm/Nagrand/SMV quests ... Those will net you a SHIT ton of gold at 70. If not ... Then you're stuck doing what quests you have left, farming, hopefully getting BoE Epic world drops... I wish you luck bud :)
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Postby snsrevived » Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:58 am

If you check the MT progression gear list, you'll see the T4 gloves don't even make the list.

Welcome to pally tanking. Thankfully, this is something I'm used to. My main is a shadow priest. I wouldn't wipe my ass with T4 for a shadow priest. Even T5 I don't touch. I've been wearing mismatched and crafted gear my entire raiding career.

So yes, Blizzard is clueless when it comes to tier gear. Especially Tier 4! Is there even a class that wears four piece tier 4? I know that shadow priest, holy priest, pally tank, mage, and hunter don't. Warlock its debatable versus the crafted pieces.
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Postby Warrender » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:05 am

From experience, I know T4 isn't that great for Holy Pallies either.
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spelldamage

Postby Rustyblade » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:10 am

Holy shield scales with spelldamage and the damage it does is very valuable as it causes 35% additional threat which is good vs single targets while consecration scales quite well and is good vs single and multiple targets.

At your level only a spell damage weapon is needed, at later levels having itemization for that is really worth it as the only thing holding your group back is how much threat you can pump out as your dps should scale much faster.
Last edited by Rustyblade on Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby guillex » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:11 am

Warrender wrote:From experience, I know T4 isn't that great for Holy Pallies either.


This.

Also from experience.
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Postby Invisusira » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:20 am

snsrevived wrote:longsig is loooooooong

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Postby Invisusira » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:25 am

Invisusira wrote:Image

okay what is that

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