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Threat on Mage sheep

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Threat on Mage sheep

Postby Makaijin » Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:11 am

Today while running heroic Mgt, a mage which i assigned to sheep got aggro and died. This was AFTER (i assume, more below) i pulled. We were on the room where the 3rd boss is clearing the trash. As usual I like to pull then run round the corner in the previous room to LoS them for easy AOE tanking. The mage casts sheep, then the whole group ran towards the mage and just died basically.

Since I was behind the wall trying to LoS I couldn't see exactly what happened. After a short discussion, the mages (we had 2 in the group) both said that sheeping threat is shared with all mobs healing threat style. I always thought that the threat is only applied to the target being sheeped. In years of my tanking career this is the first time I ever saw this happen. Both mages insisted the threat was shared, while I argued the only reason they ran towards the mage was his sheep went off before i pulled, due to lag. Or maybe it was resisted, and got 1 shotted by the sheeping target only. Since all the mobs were walking towards the same direction anyway, I couldn't exactly tell if they all did pwn him, or he just got 1 shotted by the lone sheep target after a resist.

So the question is, is the threat shared to all mobs, or is it applied to only the target being sheeped?
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Postby UMIO » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:29 am

strange. i also thought that the sheep only generated aggro against the single target. maybe this was changed in 2.4 thought if u pull with AS and it hits the sheep target then you shouldn't have aggro issues.
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Postby Thanehand » Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:39 am

Casting Sheep ONLY generates aggro on that specific target.

However, it is a significant amount, so if it breaks it will go for the mage.

Also, if they sheep before you've pulled, they will be put on the aggro table first, and consequently get aggro from every mob until you have put down more aggro on each mob. (I know you said AFTER...was just commenting).

It is more likely that the mage did something else, (nearly) ANY action once in combat casues some threat.
Assuming there's 6 targets, for example. You pull up to 3 with AS. The mage sheeps one, and for arguments sake lets say a 5th is CC'd too...
This still leaves 1 with no-one having aggro. I've seen a mage die from this before just becasue they put Ice Barrier up (Gave them a very tiny, nominal amount of threat, but still over my Zero threat on the target).

Lastly, what exactly did you CC?
Some mobs have AOE... A lose Mage Guard, or Etherum Smuggler would have just thrown Glaives or randomly teleported and ArcExp.


Just to note: you say the WHOLE group ran to the mage? Even if sheep casued AOE aggro, there is no way it would casue more that the aggro from AS, so you should have had 3 still... I would say the mage pulled before you.

My last question is: Why the hell was the Mage standing the Mob Path to you? He should have been further back, or off to one side to sheep...
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Postby Makaijin » Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:11 am

The main reason I'm asking is that I never actually saw the whole thing. I was behind a wall doing a LoS pull. As soon as I pulled, I ran behind the wall in the previous room. 3 secs after I ran to the wall, the mage was dead. We didn't wipe, but the mage was saying that sheeping threat was shared to all mobs hench this discussion in the first place.

I didn't really buy into what their said, and like Thanehand said, I think he casted some other spell instead, like Ice barrier or he maybe accidently pressed his Arcane Explosion or something. According to him he only casted sheep, after the sheep went off he died like 1 secs later. He's probably talking out of his arse, but I wanted to make sure by asking here.
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Postby sweeney » Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:12 am

I had this happen on a pull in MgT last night. I was line-of-sighting the pull, mage got eaten. The casters in there are happy to throw spells at someone else if their main aggro target is out of LOS.

I don't know the specific mechanics, but I noticed it didn't happen again if they got the sheep off and ran back with me before I broke LOS. Then again, it could have easily been buff threat or a prayer of mending or something, giving them a little global threat (enough for them to clobber him before heading your way).
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Postby Snake-Aes » Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:30 am

Sweeney wrote:I had this happen on a pull in MgT last night. I was line-of-sighting the pull, mage got eaten. The casters in there are happy to throw spells at someone else if their main aggro target is out of LOS.

I don't know the specific mechanics, but I noticed it didn't happen again if they got the sheep off and ran back with me before I broke LOS. Then again, it could have easily been buff threat or a prayer of mending or something, giving them a little global threat (enough for them to clobber him before heading your way).


I think the LoS mechanic changed COMPLETELY in 2.4. If their target is out of sight they just pretend you do'nt exist. I noticed that on the pull of the adds before the last boss in Furnace...2~ came to me and the other 3 reset, everyone LoSed them out of the main room.
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Postby jere » Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:48 am

I have been using LoS in Magister's Terrace a lot and have noticed no issues with it honestly. I think what happens a lot of times is things like the warrior pops his rage generation buff, a mage pops combustion, a healer casts inner fire or heals someone not quite at 100%, etc. right after the pull starts. Buffing generates threat so after a pull if you run away and LoS, then things you didn't touch get pulled to others who do those types of buffing after the pull.
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Postby Shamora » Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:07 am

Did you actually do anything to the mobs or did you just run in, wave, and run out of sight? If you didn't touch them then a mage sheeping or any other crowd control like that will pull aggro. Basically you run in and they see you. You now have 0.5 threat on them all. When someone buffs or debuffs while in combat they generate 1 threat on all targets. So the mage sheeps and generates 1 threat on all the mobs. This is obviously higher then your 'hey over here' threat of 0.5 and they run and proceeded to the pinata..err..I mean mage :lol: .

*Numbers are just shown for example
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Postby Sithy » Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:40 am

Sounds like the mage just got social aggro on the rest of the group that didn't get hit by your shield. You need to make sure that the group members stay back instead of being way far ahead, once the sheep is done come stand behind you and the mobs will get picked up.
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Postby Tsarin » Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:51 pm

My main is a mage.

What happens is the mobs are linked. So, if your shield missed, you moved around the corner and his sheep lands he gets the agro. It's his job to run around the corner and let you do the consecration. The place I really noticed this is in the room with Halazzi.

In that room, we normally start with a mage sheep pull of the left mobs. I sheep moon and then move backwards because the two linked mobs with him need to be picked up by the tanks or they will crush the mage. He obviously is on their agro list at this point. But a single swat from any weapon will put him at the bottom of it.
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Postby Moses » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:36 pm

I have a 70 mage and as long as I sheep after the pull I've never gotten aggro on any other mobs. Also as long as my shield hits them first when I'm tanking they still run to me after the sheep breaks, so I don't think it generates all that much threat, certainly not as much as enslave or MC.
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Postby Lightbreak » Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:18 pm

I have both tanked Heroic MT many times, and I've ran it on my mage a few as well. I for one have never been eaten while sheeping, nor do I think mobs share agro from casting sheep. But it does put you in combat with the mobs in question. (I've played a mage for going on 3 years.)

What I have noticed is mages dieing on two different occasions while trying to LOS mobs in MT. Particularly as you mentioned, in the room of the third boss.

I also noticed while pulling mobs in this room that some corners of the room put me out of LoS of the healer for some strange reason. What might be occurring is the mage sheeps as you pull, putting him in combat with all of the mobs but only gaining agro on his sheep target, you then move into an LoS dead zone and the mobs then target the mage.

This should certainly be looked into.
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Postby Tsarin » Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:30 am

I think I just said the same thing. Basically. mobs are linked to run together if combat starts. This is pretty obvious otherwise you would be able to pull one mob out of a pack without the others noticing. Once your in combat your the top of the agro list until someone else enters.

It's the same reason you can sit down and drink and someone else can pull. It won't automatically stand you back up and put you into combat unless your actually on the agro list. I think a missed shield generates very little agro.
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Postby Eanin » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:43 am

I've never been outaggroed by a mage if I use judgement of blood or righteousness.
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Postby Lookit » Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:08 am

I always try to hit the sheep target with my AS, and let the mage know to start casting polymorph as soon as he sees the holy frisbee leave my hands. This way I have a nice chunk of threat on the mob so that it comes straight to me when the sheep breaks.

In your case though, I think it was just an issue of him being in their path, and you not having any aggro on some of the mobs, perhaps though a missed shield. As long as he gets his sheep off *after* you've tossed the shield, and then he gets behind you, there shouldn't be any problems.

I've also never seen anything to indicate that polymorph splits its threat like healing does.
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