Brutallus

Kalecgos, Brutallus, Felmyst, M'uru, Entropius, Kil'jaeden

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Postby Splug » Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:34 am

Just out of curiousity, how does Ardent Defender interact with Brutallus' synchronized hit? If the mainhand swing puts you under 35%, will AD reduce the damage on the offhand? The attacks list mainhand first every time I've checked my combat log. If they're independant, AD would be a fairly significant boon on the fight since the damage spikes are essentially split on a margin that's likely to trigger AD for non-lethal hits, giving paladins some significant mitigation. Example: 5k stomp -> 10k hit -> 5k hit comes up very often, and depending on his swing timer when he stomps, there may not be any heals between there- so the 20k damage spike is broken into three segments. If AD can pick up between the mainhand and offhand swing, that's going to save you enough damage intake to more than counter the gap between defensive stance and IRF.

On the other hand, if it can't pick up between the MH/OH swings, AD becomes essentially worthless while stomped. As you'd need about 45k health to trigger AD before the 15k swing cycle, it's guarenteed to get skipped every time. EDIT: The exception is the case where the mainhand is avoided. AD would be perfectly capable of saving the day or providing healthy mitigation in the case of parry/offhand.

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Postby Worldie » Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:11 pm

If they hit at exactly same time... Ardent Defender is not going to mitigate anything.
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Postby Teckbot » Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:37 pm

Worldie wrote:If they hit at exactly same time... Ardent Defender is not going to mitigate anything.


I had Palatank running during the fight and I am SUPER pissed that I didn't look to see how much damage Ardent Defender had reduced. I will look for it tonight when we go back to him.
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Postby icydevarosp » Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:16 pm

yeah so far ardent defender doesn't do anything for brtualis as both hits are simultaneous thus negating ardent defender completely, thinking about picking up reckoning for more tps
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Postby Hollyhell » Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:32 pm

This is a pretty fun fight... We got through to the enrage and 30%. We missed a few key people.
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Postby Rhî » Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:08 am

From my point of view, we are the worst tank at that boss. A warrior has the same HP-Pool as we have, but is taking significantly less damage, because of the gap between improved Defensive Stance (-10% damage) and improved Righteous Fury (-6% damage) at the same armor and block value levels (23000 armor and 600 block value).

Our damage in is more comparable with that of the druids, but we have significantly less HP than them.

So what should the reason not to take Warrior and Druid, while progressing? At least, we are not excluded per se. But in my opinion we are not the choice to tank there.
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Postby Mithos » Thu Apr 03, 2008 6:15 am

I wouldn't say we are that bad at it, I offered to sit outside purely on a gear basis, as I am still missing a fair few items as they never drop. I am still using Tankatronic goggles and the badge chest, so the armour on them sucks. I can get pretty close to 18k HP unbuffed whilst maintaining threat and (almost) my normal avoidance, and that scales well with buffs in raid.

I don't know what other guilds' tanks are like, but we are terrible with plate tank drops, we get hardly any at all (except the Supremus shoulders and BB warrior Belt every week...).
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Postby Splug » Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:13 am

icydevarosp wrote:yeah so far ardent defender doesn't do anything for brtualis as both hits are simultaneous thus negating ardent defender completely, thinking about picking up reckoning for more tps

If AD's useless and you're looking for an encounter-specific build, you may get a bigger boost out of sanctity aura, not sure what else you'd have to give up but it'd definitely compensate for losing AS on this fight. Look both builds over and see what looks reasonable. But don't respec until I give the aye/nay, no reason to waste money until I see what turnout tonight is.

Based on last night, the damage to warriors and paladins is fairly close. Having a 15k spike vary by ~400-500 from one tank to the other isn't a game breaking difference, and having a judgement with 100% uptime isn't a horrible thing either. The main inconvenience I saw was that with our positioning, the tanks are more than 20 yards apart, so I had to go running around to refresh commanding shout every time it wasn't my turn to tank. An inconvenience, but hardly a problem.

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Postby Lore » Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:21 am

Splug wrote:If AD's useless and you're looking for an encounter-specific build, you may get a bigger boost out of sanctity aura, not sure what else you'd have to give up but it'd definitely compensate for losing AS on this fight.


You'd lose Combat Expertise as well.
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Postby Splug » Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:39 am

If you're dropping AD anyway, wouldn't something like this be viable?
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/cla ... 0100000000
The two points in conviction are essentially wild card points in ret. But it's definitely doable to keep combat expertise if you drop the five points in AD.

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Postby icydevarosp » Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:47 am

Kind of sure the combat expertise comes from the talent combat expertise, not ardent defender. I have only seen ardent defender keep me once up on brutallis last night and that was when he stomped me mitigating it from 6k down to 4k but I died short there after. Looking at the possible ret talents, im wishing vindication worked on him, how sweet would that be :*(

But yeah that build seems the best bet that I see, still don't like the idea of losing avenger's shield though
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Postby icydevarosp » Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:19 am

Looking back at it do you think the 3% more dmg from crusade + 10% more holy dmg would cause more damage than reckoning...

Reckoning should have a decent uptime, considering he swings every 1.5 seconds twice.. + the stomp every 30.. assuming a 1.6 speed swing timer, reckoning will only be up every 6.4 seconds (maximum)...
He hits 8x in that window assuming 30% avoidance because of sunwell being gay... giving me an average of 5.6 hits per 6.4 seconds, thus giving me a 56% chance for reckoning to be up, which will be doing another 180 from righteousness, and 90 dmg per swing for another 270 dmg a hit which is another 168 dps/270 tps when reckoning is up, assuming 56% of the time thats 120.4/204.2 TPS from reckoning..

Compared to 3% more damage overall, + 10% more holy damage (ontop of losing the armor aura)...
which one do you think is better?
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Postby Taoden » Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:53 pm

icydevarosp wrote:assuming 30% avoidance because of sunwell being gay


What do you mean by this?
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Postby icydevarosp » Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:06 pm

every mob in sunwell, minus the blood elf packs in the begining have a hidden buff that negates 20% dodge, and 5% miss, thus giving every tank 25% lower hard avoidance than it normally shows.
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Postby Eender » Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:38 am

Does anyone know of any Paladins successfully tanking this fight? If so are there any video's out of said paladins? I would like to see their TPS output and damage intake to compare with my own.
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