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Postby Tennah » Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:12 am

Thank you for the correction and clarification. I shall alter some gems to i think, although i am concerned about droping parry and dodge down when reducing my defence rating in favour of block rating because of the reduced over-all mitigation. As Dodge and Parry reduce damage taken by 100%.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:14 am

Levantine wrote:
Sharlos wrote:
Levantine wrote:You'd think so, but nope. At lower level content stuff doesn't hit all that hard. The extra damage means you get healed more, blah blah blah.


still, the attack power needed to get SoB to be worth a damn in comparison to SoR would cause you to have next to no spell damage, gimping holy shield and consecration, a significant amount of our threat.


Just because it's not the best way doesn't mean it doesn't work. I'm not saying that we should all roll BElfs, because I KNOW that SoR is much much better. It's been proven ON THIS SITE, that it's possible.
It's like copulating with Giraffes. It can happen..but all it does is making you ask "Why?"

That guy, basically, is trapped in his own poor logic. He saw something that worked while leveling, and that seemed cheaper to stack, and thinks he can tank with that.
Sadly for him, paladins do not work that way. Each spec uses a completely different gearing.
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Postby Levantine » Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:30 am

Snake-Aes wrote:
Levantine wrote:
Sharlos wrote:
Levantine wrote:You'd think so, but nope. At lower level content stuff doesn't hit all that hard. The extra damage means you get healed more, blah blah blah.


still, the attack power needed to get SoB to be worth a damn in comparison to SoR would cause you to have next to no spell damage, gimping holy shield and consecration, a significant amount of our threat.


Just because it's not the best way doesn't mean it doesn't work. I'm not saying that we should all roll BElfs, because I KNOW that SoR is much much better. It's been proven ON THIS SITE, that it's possible.
It's like copulating with Giraffes. It can happen..but all it does is making you ask "Why?"

That guy, basically, is trapped in his own poor logic. He saw something that worked while leveling, and that seemed cheaper to stack, and thinks he can tank with that.
Sadly for him, paladins do not work that way. Each spec uses a completely different gearing.


Lawl, everyones reading it like I'm advocating what he's doing. xD I know it's a terribadawfulshite idea. ;)
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Postby Snake-Aes » Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:34 am

Just complementing your material :p
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Postby Levantine » Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:36 am

xD Soz for doubting you Snakey.

(L)
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Postby sweeney » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:02 am

Tennah wrote:Thank you for the correction and clarification. I shall alter some gems to i think, although i am concerned about droping parry and dodge down when reducing my defence rating in favour of block rating because of the reduced over-all mitigation. As Dodge and Parry reduce damage taken by 100%.


Well, it depends on what you're tanking. For 5-mans, you're going to avoid so much that you go OOM. For Heroics, your max HP is so low that any pull where you don't get dodge/parry streaks, you'll be a red smear on the floor.

Your block/dodge/parry stats are quite good for someone in T4/Kara gear -- but they'd have like 40% more HP buffed than you. At your progression level, especially if you're going to be tanking 5-man content primarily, you'd be better off switching all your gems out for stamina.

Since you're looking at getting into Kara soon, start gearing out multiple sets. It's a pain, but worth it. For 5-man content and trash, mostly prioritize HP. For your Kara boss set, do whatever you have to to get to uncrushable -- but realize that block rating is very good for this since it's so cheap. And honestly, starting out you'll only be doing up to Opera and you'll likely see some tanking upgrades drop along the way, so don't sweat trying to achieve upper Kara-grade levels of avoidance before you have the gear with the base stamina to support it.

Regardless, though, you'll do far better in lower Kara than the guy in Ret gear with 430 defense using SoBlood -- it'd take some really good healers and CC in order for him to get *to* Attumen, much less take him down.
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Postby thegreatheed » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:06 am

Exodius wrote:
But to the original poster, your defence is too high. You could change the extra defence gems you have for stamina or avoidance gems, and probably tank better because of it. Extra defence is not worthless, but above the caps it's cheaper to have pure avoidance, for example, the +8 dodge gems.


Some of this was said another way. But I'll give my input.

Your defense can NEVER be too high. 1 rating of defense is ALMOST as much PURE avoidance as 1 dodge rating. 1 rating of defense is better towards uncrushable than 1 dodge rating, since it adds some block rating as well.

So, I'll agree, don't gem for defense after 102.4; defense gems > dodge gems pre 102.4 though. And honestly, after 102.4, go for stam gems imo.
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Postby sweeney » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:11 am

Well, I hear what you're saying -- but if you end up at like 10k HP buffed to get uncrushable, that just means that your current gear doesn't really support tanking lvl 73's. I was wearing equivalent gear to the OP when I started tanking Kara, but had about 12-13k HP buffed due to different gems and prioritizing block rating after 490 defense.

I'd still prefer getting the new +def enchants and gemming for stamina in that situation. Or do something like swap in a Shield of the Wayward Footman with the +block rating enchant for bosses -- that's like 4% towards uncrushable right there.

I don't think high defense is bad, but there's a curve where you barely get 490, then you barely get uncrushable, then neither is a concern. Some of the advice in this thread is best used after you pass those T4/Kara gear plateaus that the OP hasn't yet reached.
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Postby kalbear » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:15 am

You can absolutely have too much defense. If you're choosing defense over dodge when you're actively uncrushable, you're wasting itemization on something that doesn't help you as much. Who wants that?

Seal of Blood + a good tanking weapon (sun eater was the example I had) has about the equivalent spelldamage of 170. It's not as bad as you'd think, honestly; SoB does a ton of damage, forces healers to heal you (so it's mana-efficient for you at least) and never misses a judgment, making hit/spell hit not as important.

It's reasonable to use up to and through Kara depending on the gear.

That being said, you will likely start running into threat problems in later Kara and beyond, and the itemization really works against you unless you take nothing but warrior items. And even then, not so much. It's not optimal, but it's not the worst thing ever.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:42 am

kalbear wrote:You can absolutely have too much defense. If you're choosing defense over dodge when you're actively uncrushable, you're wasting itemization on something that doesn't help you as much. Who wants that?

Seal of Blood + a good tanking weapon (sun eater was the example I had) has about the equivalent spelldamage of 170. It's not as bad as you'd think, honestly; SoB does a ton of damage, forces healers to heal you (so it's mana-efficient for you at least) and never misses a judgment, making hit/spell hit not as important.

It's reasonable to use up to and through Kara depending on the gear.

That being said, you will likely start running into threat problems in later Kara and beyond, and the itemization really works against you unless you take nothing but warrior items. And even then, not so much. It's not optimal, but it's not the worst thing ever.

One of the characteristics that work against it is that warrior tanking is barely dependable on any damage. It's all embed threat, druids follow that to a lesser extent. Paladins' threat is fully based on damage done(threat from casting a seal is so minor that taking it into account is really just wasted work), which, for sob, requires plate dps gear =\

All in all, sob doesn't work after curator~ and the amount of effort required to re-itemize is so big i wouldn't bother.
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Postby Jarenien » Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:53 am

I gaurantee that guy has not tanked heroic ramparts successfully. He would be critted left and right for hits in the 5-6K range, making healing impossible. That guy needs to learn how to play his class and learn that resilience is crap and doesn't do a lick of good in PVE.

*EDIT* -- I won't even get into his aggro ability since it is so blatantly obvious. Lol
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Postby Tennah » Thu Apr 03, 2008 6:46 pm

Well, I dontt think he would be critted, as the resilience takes him well into uncrittable, but i think that his lack of damage mitiigation would have made it very tough on his healer.
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