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Passive Uncrushability & Thunderfury

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Passive Uncrushability & Thunderfury

Postby Rustyblade » Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:55 am

So, I know its possible and its been done on these forums by some of our paladins but I want to know if its possible to get it without anything but Kara/badge/za gear.

Right now I need ~25% ish which seems so far away but my block value is good about 645ish with more on the way with the new meta gem to put in my 50 badge helm.

So, anyone know what things I would need to do this without ssc/tk(and if possible w/o ZA) drops?



@Invisusira

I am working on getting myself a TF but I want to know is the proc on it superior threat to say a tempest chaos or similar spellblade or do you use it for the coolness factor?

God knows I would :D

Anyone else who has one care to comment?
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Postby SmurfZG » Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:58 am

Threat has been nerfed into nothingness. Spell dmg weapon is better. It's still cool though :>
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Postby Rustyblade » Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:15 am

SmurfZG wrote:Threat has been nerfed into nothingness. Spell dmg weapon is better. It's still cool though :>


Well how much TPS is it and what is its proc chance? Is it a PPM, if so how many? Is it a %, if so how often?


Somewhere on these forums is this formula...
1 spell damge = .63 tps with 3/3 imp RF


.63 • 259 = 102.7971 Threat

No enchants as both will be enchanted with the same enchant.

So can TF proc beat that number? Also keep in mind you get the thunderclap effect which paladins do not have access to and it keeps threat on multiple CC'd targets as well which might be superior in certain situations.
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Postby Sarima » Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:21 am

AFAIK Invis uses the weapon as a damage-mitigating one: as a substitute for thunderclap so to speak.

Threat is, from what I read, shite.
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Postby Rustyblade » Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:41 am

Sarima wrote:AFAIK Invis uses the weapon as a damage-mitigating one: as a substitute for thunderclap so to speak.

Threat is, from what I read, shite.


I see.

Anyone care to comment on the other question I had? :P
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Re: Passive Uncrushability & Thunderfury

Postby Ferrosis » Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:12 am

Rustyblade wrote:So, I know its possible and its been done on these forums by some of our paladins but I want to know if its possible to get it without anything but Kara/badge/za gear.
...

So, anyone know what things I would need to do this without ssc/tk(and if possible w/o ZA) drops?


From quite a while ago:

http://www.warcrafter.net/sandbox/11575

Unfortunately, the Battleworn helm has been changed from 40 block rating to 40 defense. There is also 3 SSC/TK drops - back, finger and wrist, but there was some room for changes as the avoidance/mitigation total was 108.8%.

EDIT: Making changes on that link will change it for future viewers.
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Postby Hiroko » Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:18 am

Yup, TF is no longer any good to threat, the multiple nerfs it has had crippled it.

It is still decent as a mitigation weapon as mentioned.

I used mine for P2 of the Prince in Karazhan when we were learning it and had no dps warrior present.
I used it for when I was tanking mobs that were not the first to die, and was noone around to thunderclap - later channelers at Magtheridon, hunter (and pet) at Karathress are examples. I'd use SoV with it.

I also tend to use it when soloing, for no real reason other than it looks alot better than my pink lolipop.

---

Not really sure why you would want to achieve passive uncrushability in pre-scc/tk gear as although you'd be taking consistant damage I'd think you'd be taking way too much with the avoidance you'd lose by over-stacking block rating in place of reasonable amounts of dodge, and likely low armor-value items.

Are badge items allowed in your setup? thinking about 2.4 boots, that would help for block rating, but would not be normally considered over the 2.3 boots.
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Postby guillex » Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:35 am

Sarima wrote:AFAIK Invis uses the weapon as a damage-mitigating one: as a substitute for thunderclap so to speak.

Threat is, from what I read, shite.


It depends.

He doesn't always swap it out. On a long fight, when his target is last (like ... FLK), he'll swap it out near the last 20% for some more mitigation and the TC debuff.

But again, it's situational, and not always used.
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Postby Sarima » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:30 am

Guillex wrote:But again, it's situational, and not always used.

Since tanking in itself is highly situational, this goes without saying. :P
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Postby Mateo » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:48 am

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... hunderfury

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... hunderfury

That said, there's a point where Thunderfury will out-threat Tempest, but we simply don't have the tools for that. (Warriors will easily become Dodge-capped from Expertise present on their most prevalent tanking pieces, as well as becoming melee Hit-capped.)

Assuming the best scenario, (Mob with 0 armor, no resists on the proc) you'll be getting 125.18 DPS single-target. [(330 x 1.08 )/.2 + 53.9]

After all of that, I'm the first person on my release-day server to obtain one and have been tanking ever since. ^^

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Postby Keejoong » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:27 am

How hard is it these days to get TF? I took a quick look and the quest chain seems extremely long
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Postby Lore » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:38 am

How would Thunderfury ever out-threat Tempest of Chaos?
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Postby Mateo » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:46 am

Lore wrote:How would Thunderfury ever out-threat Tempest of Chaos?


Now that I look over it, I wrote down the right number, but I used the wrong number for its proc rate when I made that statement. Seals can't proc TF anymore, (Patch 2.2) which brings it down from 171.51 TPS to 125.18 single target and in the ideal scenario.

You are correct; it will not out-threat Tempest, but its usefulness beyond threat does not go unnoticed.
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Postby Crittoris » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:52 am

The idea of early passive uncrushability excited me too, because it would mean that you could farm the shit out of BM trash mobs and kill ~150-200 mobs in one single kill.

Head- Faceguard of Determination
Neck- Steam-Hinge Chain of Valor
Shoulders- Justicar Shoulderguards
Back- Slikk's Cloak of Placation
Chest- Panzar'Thar Breastplate
Wrist- Amber Bands of the Aggressor
Hands- Iron Gauntlets of the Maiden
Waist- Shat'ari Vindicator's Girdle
Legs- Unwavering Leggards
Feet- Legionbane Greaves of Ayden
Finger1- Andormu's Tear
Finger2- Elementium Band of the Sentry
Trinket1- Figurine of the Colossus
Trinket2- Adamantine Figurine
Libram- Libram of Eternal Rest
Weapon- Sun Eater
Shield- Shield of the Wayward Footman

All of these with defense gems and the highest avoidance enchants...I never did the math but it gets you pretty close and it's just kara/badge gear and 1 piece from gruul's.

The downside is that if some of these are in your regular tanking gear, they've become garbage.

This is at least a good base. If you have any of these items and then get upgrades, you can keep them and gem them for defense and throw em in the bank.
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Postby Splug » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:56 am

Mateo, what numbers were you using for threat per proc and proc rate? I had heard the innate threat from applying the Thunderfury debuff was removed, and the only threat it generates now is from the 300 damage per proc. Going through the warrior/threat guides on Tankspot, I can't find any specific notes to confirm or deny either of those points. I recall hearing them, but don't remember the source at all.

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