Reckoning/Weapon Speed (Math)

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Postby kurros » Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:54 pm

jere wrote:Actually your view is somewhat skewed. When reckoning procs it does 100% more damage every proc regardless. The 33.7% seems to indicate the chance that reckoning had proc'd in the last 4 swings period. This doesn't tell the dmg increase though because if the reckoning proc happend 4 swings ago only then the current swing has no reckoning charge to consume. He should have measured it from the last 3 swings instead (but even this has holes as there is no way to synchronize the times you swing with the times the enemy swings).

Also faster weapons will consume more charges over time than slower weapons, so both weapons won't necessarily proc 10 times. One might proc 11 and the other 10 for example.


Okay, lets clear some things up. When I say "proc reckoning" I mean you get hit by the mob, the 10% chance occurs, and you gain a reckoning buff. I do not see this could be affected in ANY WAY by your weapon speed. Please correct me if I am wrong. It is simply based on the rate at which the mob hits you, the number of procs are not going to change because you go from a faster to a slower weapon.

Reckoning is a 100% damage increase during the proc time, that I will also agree with.

So, what is different?

The only difference is that the slower the weapon, the longer it takes to use up all the chargers. Using the charges itself is irrelevant. For example, lets say there was some fantasy weapon with a 4.0 speed. You could only get 2 swings per reckoning. would this be bad? No, because you would still get a 100% damage increase during those 2 swings, which translates to a 100% damage increase for 8 seconds. Failing to use the charges doesn't reduce your dps in any way.

What about using the charges up early? Well, then you can lose dps. With a speed 1.5 sword, you can proc reckoning and be out of charges 6 seconds later. You gained a 100% damage increase still, but only for 6 seconds.

Over a long fight, with 10 procs of reckoning, the slow weapon gets 8 seconds of increased dps per proc, while the fast weapon only gains 6 seconds per proc.

80 seconds at 200% damage > 60 seconds at 200% damage.
Anyway, lets just agree to disagree. Go away, or I'll just start reporting you to the mods for being a troll. In exchange, I'll stop pointing out your stupid in public.
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Postby jere » Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:38 pm

kurros wrote:
Okay, lets clear some things up. When I say "proc reckoning" I mean you get hit by the mob, the 10% chance occurs, and you gain a reckoning buff. I do not see this could be affected in ANY WAY by your weapon speed. Please correct me if I am wrong. It is simply based on the rate at which the mob hits you, the number of procs are not going to change because you go from a faster to a slower weapon.

Reckoning is a 100% damage increase during the proc time, that I will also agree with.

So, what is different?

The only difference is that the slower the weapon, the longer it takes to use up all the chargers. Using the charges itself is irrelevant. For example, lets say there was some fantasy weapon with a 4.0 speed. You could only get 2 swings per reckoning. would this be bad? No, because you would still get a 100% damage increase during those 2 swings, which translates to a 100% damage increase for 8 seconds. Failing to use the charges doesn't reduce your dps in any way.

What about using the charges up early? Well, then you can lose dps. With a speed 1.5 sword, you can proc reckoning and be out of charges 6 seconds later. You gained a 100% damage increase still, but only for 6 seconds.

Over a long fight, with 10 procs of reckoning, the slow weapon gets 8 seconds of increased dps per proc, while the fast weapon only gains 6 seconds per proc.

80 seconds at 200% damage > 60 seconds at 200% damage.


I think we are saying the same thing in different ways. My beef with what you said was:

The 2.0 weapon will produce 33.7% more damage per proc while the 1.8 will produce 30.9% more per proc.


I bolded the incorrect parts. From his math a 2.0 speed weapon will produce 33.7% damage overall. Per proc indicates a scope change in that the damage happens during the window of choice. Within the window, the damage done by reckoning is exactly 100% more (barring misses/dodges/parries/etc) but the window occurs 33.7% of the whole time. I think you mean something differently than you typed from what I read in your last post.

So in essence we both agree on:
1. During the reckoning phase, you do 100% more damage
2. Reckoning occurs x.xx% of the time (I don't necessarily buy the 33.7)
3. Slower weapons take longer to eat all the charges or don't eat them all depending on the speed

I think in general we agree, we just don't know how to communicate our thoughts to each other as well.
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Postby corc » Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:26 pm

Phasek wrote:The argument about a 2.2 weapon speed weapon is an interesting one, saying that 3 attacks will cover 6.6 seconds. However, the timing of reckoning procing is completely random, and the paladin's first swing could come 1.0 seconds after reckoning procced, therefor providing him all 4 attacks in a span on 7.6 seconds. Over a huge sample size, the chance that a paladin receives 3 or 4 extra attacks will average out to provide the exact same damage boost as a 2.0 speed weapon.


I like this tidbit of info, good thing to think about. We could also add parry in there to further increase the chances of using all for charges with a slower than 2.0 weapon :P

jere wrote:This is a bad way to look at it though.

Over a 10 minute fight (600s) both weapons will do exactly 600*100 = 60000 dmg regardless of weapon speed (Assuming both are the same dps and have no misses, dodges, parries, etc.). Over 8 seconds a 1.8 speed weapon will still do 800 damage (on average) and over 7.2 seconds a 2.0 speed weapon will do 720 dmg (on average) if both are 100 dps weapons.


Not a big problem but you mixed up the damage. Not sure what you were saying--my whole point was to reduce it to the larger picture and to keep it simple.

if you change it so instead of starting the swing time at the start of the reckoning timer but to the half-swing time (average of getting really lucky and getting really unlucky) my comparison would change to:

1.8: 6.30s of double damage -> 630 added
2.0: 7.00s of double damage -> 700 added
2.2: 7.70s of double damage -> 770 added
2.3: 5.75s of double damage -> 575 added (first weapon to on average not use all the charges)
2.7: 6.75s of double damage -> 675 added (lower city mace speed)

In a no miss world, the 2.2 speed weapon is the clear winner in my mind.

But, I still stand by the idea that we miss a lot since we don't usually have +hit, and so before I sacrifice +avoidance or +sta for +hit I'm going use my gladiator mace to make sure I use up the most charges possible and keep a steady TPS.
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