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Tried to step into a heroic, it stepped on me...

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Tried to step into a heroic, it stepped on me...

Postby Dantec » Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:04 pm

Alrighty, so gear wise I'd consider myself at least fairly well equipped for pre-raid/pre-heroic. I've been following the pre-raid gear guys and I've picked up most of the pieces, save for a few of the trickier ones (ones that drop in heroics and a couple of the crafted ones). So far I've had little of no trouble in normal instances, I run them very frequently, I seem to stand up reasonably well even in heavy pulls with no CC (like Shattered Halls).

I've started to reach the point where most of the upgrades to my gear are found in heroics. So I was fairly confident in my gear and I decided to give a heroic a shot. My first go was with heroic Black Morass. The healer seemed to have trouble keeping my up and by the third wave I was going down. After doing a little reading I found that this was one of the more difficult heroics so I figured I just bit off more than I could chew thus far. Some time later I decided to try again, this time with heroic Blood Furnace. This time around I couldn't stand up past the few pulls. I didn't seem to have trouble holding aggro, I kept the mobs on me with a fairly large lead in threat. I kept holy shield up the duration of the fights and even tried to squeeze in a seal/judgment of light to help keep me up a bit.

So really my question here is are the last few pieces of the pre-raid gear going to give me such an edge to counter this or am I just doing something wrong? I've read several guides and from 60+ I primarily leveled through instances, so I'd consider myself at least competent when it comes to skills. My character can be found here http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Whisperwind&n=Dantec

My stats at a glance

HP: 11,175
AR: 12,169
Def: 518
Uncrush: 91.46 (avoidance total with holy shield, calculated via the macro)
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Postby halabar » Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:22 pm

Sounds like a healer problem...

Try UB, SP, or Mech or Bot... depending on what you have done in regualr mode.. those are a tad easier, and your healer might do better.
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Postby Khayne » Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:30 pm

Blood Furnace really isn´t the least tanking gear requiring instance either.

those stats dont look that bad, some more health could be good.
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31460 could be a small upgrade (better survive better and do less threat than other way around). Also maybe change the Seal of the Exorcist to more mitigating/avoiding ring. you should still do good enough threat even if you changed those 2 items, but could get you some help in survival.

If you got supportive guildies you could try get a priest, lock or dps warrior in your group (or all of them =), would give a big boost in your health.

also, for good starting instances for heroics i´d say
Mechanar (esp. with a lock and if you got someone with low cooldown spell interrupt) and Slave Pens.
I also like Botanica as a good source of badges. remember to HoJ freely on those mobs that do whirlwind and shoot bolts from it, and it´s also good on the 4 packs of satyrs. Just dont pull the 4 packs when they´re in red haze and you should be cool.
Shattered Halls should also be doable if you use CC and skip the gladiator packs, also try have a mage to decurse you (druid can decurse too, but the sheep, aoe + water combo is nice). Also Stun allways the biggest and meanest mob in pack, helps abit on those double sentrys at end that can stun you (can lead to nasty spike with your hp, so stun one of them before they do it to you).

All of these also drop gear that might be upgrades to you, 3 of them drop 4-5 badges. Just remember that there´s no shame in using lots of CC when you´re not great geared.

Also, remember that trinkets got quite low cooldowns, so dont ever die with trinkets without cooldown. popping those cost you nothing, and if you die their cooldowns will reset anyway during the corpse run. many of those instances i mentioned got multimob pulls, and dabiri has a 90second cooldown for quite significant damage reduction in packs.
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Postby Achtung » Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:29 pm

Nice work on choosing two difficult instances for your heroic debut!

BF mobs hit really hard, and even I had trouble with a geared healer. Black Morass isn't as bad, but you need high dps and good heals also (mana-efficient healers).

Try hitting up something a bit lighter, like the TK instances or coilfang ones.
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Re: Tried to step into a heroic, it stepped on me...

Postby Barathorn » Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:06 am

Dantec wrote:
My stats at a glance

HP: 11,175
AR: 12,169
Def: 518
Uncrush: 91.46 (avoidance total with holy shield, calculated via the macro)


Good stats for your level of progression Dantec. However if you are not running with a priest or warlock you are going to get beat on a lot with 11k health. Try making sure a priest or warlock is with you, both would be great!

Try heroic Slave Pens. With CC its about 60-75 minutes and an easy run, just learn what you can avoid and make sure you CC the mind controllers and fear causing mobs. Good luck!

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Postby Xanatos » Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:19 am

I remember a time when 11k health was considered above average for a tankadin. And then they changed our talents around so if you're not rocking 15k health, you had some gearing to go.

Anyway, 11k health is enough to tank heroics in. A lot of us started heroics with just over 10k health before our stam bonus got buffed.
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Postby Hammerjudge » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:35 am

As a healer, I'd be a little anxious with your HP level, but would just overheal to compensate. Furnace mobs hit very hard, as you discovered.

With a tank 'new' to heroics, I would also require very good crowd control on all pulls, so my healing load is not spread across the party and I can just focus my healing on you.

I'd say, your stats are fine but (a) only do the easier heroics and (b) get the RIGHT party composition so your cc is maxed out.
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Postby xinpong » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:44 am

Early heroic tankadin with blue gear is mostly reliant on the skills of your healer and CC-members. Which makes PUGs hard, since you sometimes end up with the dregs of society.
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Postby jsl2000 » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:54 am

i tank my first heroic at the weekend SP. Personally i thought i struggled, not on the bosses but on the trash considering pallys are meant to tank alot of mobs at the same time our healer (kara geared pally) couldn't keep me alive with 5k hits coming in off 3 mobs at the same time. Eventually we got the hunter to kite one around, trap one and had no probs. We wiped a few times on quagmirran but that was more the shaman fault for pulling aggro off me (oh and i bubbled half way through the the fight, you live and learn). Strangely though i tanked a normal SL last nite and i just can't keep aggro on the second boss i had issues before with tanking him and usually i'll get our arms specced warrior to tank him cos he has no issues, do pallys have known problems with the second boss in SL?
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Postby Steg » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:16 am

I'm around your gear situation i guess

and i tanked UB with way to much eaze tbh.... i asked our mage eve to NOT sheep any more coz i got mana starved :P

Also Ramparts was doable besides the dragon.. bloody randomness on the firepits...

Also did Morogrim's murlocs already on my first day as lvl 70 LOL :P
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Postby Snake-Aes » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:18 am

jsl2000 wrote:do pallys have known problems with the second boss in SL?
Yes, he's a bitch to tank. Depending on the group I really don't even try, just whack at him and hope to be the dpsers' cushion so they don't 2-shot the healer.
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Postby Cearn » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:44 am

Snake-Aes wrote:
jsl2000 wrote:do pallys have known problems with the second boss in SL?
Yes, he's a bitch to tank. Depending on the group I really don't even try, just whack at him and hope to be the dpsers' cushion so they don't 2-shot the healer.


A: Burn mana, wait for chaos.
B: Rune/Pot
C: start over

My way of doing him on heroic; I tend to run with clothies, thats why.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:48 am

I don't save when I run with clothies either, but usually it's a rogue, a fury warrior and an elemental shaman, with a druid healer or a priest healer.
Both warrior and rogue easily output 1200 ~ dps. You don't want to see them spanking the healers :@ And there's really no practical way of me to tank without stable mana income XD My threat set barely helps.
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Postby Dantec » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:26 am

Thanks for all the input guys! I'll try to pick up a few more upgrades and squeeze in a bit more HP. Working on picking up the arena mace right now to counter the loss of the +spellpower from swapping out a few pieces then I'll hit up the easier heroics and work my way on up.
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